From arzamendi at berbee.com Fri Feb 1 10:06:02 2002 From: arzamendi at berbee.com (Peter Arzamendi) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 10:06:02 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] ISO site Message-ID: <002401c1ab3a$5902e7a0$bc4ba8c0@binc.net> Does anyone know of a good ISO site? Thanks, Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020201/88c69111/attachment.htm From jay at jayandcarissa.com Fri Feb 1 10:42:51 2002 From: jay at jayandcarissa.com (Jay Christner) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:42:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Madlug] ISO site In-Reply-To: <002401c1ab3a$5902e7a0$bc4ba8c0@binc.net> Message-ID: http://www.linuxiso.org/ They have a lot. I can't vouch for their speed or anything though. If you're looking for a main distribution like RedHat finding a local mirror like mirror.cs.wisc.edu might be faster. -jay On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Peter Arzamendi wrote: > Does anyone know of a good ISO site? > > > > Thanks, > > Pete > > > > -- ==================================================================== Jay Christner http://jayandcarissa.com ==================================================================== From zietlow at the-rob.com Fri Feb 1 12:06:20 2002 From: zietlow at the-rob.com (zietlow at the-rob.com) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:06:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] ISO site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62651.64.73.37.245.1012586780.squirrel@www.soho.berbee.com> Depends on what you want Pete, the wi2600.org site has some in Mediawhore/iso > http://www.linuxiso.org/ > They have a lot. I can't vouch for their speed or anything though. If > you're looking for a main distribution like RedHat finding a local > mirror like mirror.cs.wisc.edu might be faster. > -jay > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Peter Arzamendi wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a good ISO site? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pete >> >> >> >> > > -- > ==================================================================== > Jay Christner > http://jayandcarissa.com > ==================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From nculwell at pyro.net Fri Feb 1 13:52:52 2002 From: nculwell at pyro.net (Nate C-K) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 13:52:52 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security Message-ID: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Hi, I have a Debian (potato) box set up in my room, and I've been pretty careful about setting it up with basic security. The reason for the security is more theoretical than practical at the moment, because the box is only networked locally. Thus, I'm not really concerned about the fact that I'm using FTP, even though it's inherently insecure. What bothers me is that when I run 'nmap -sS localhost', I get the following: Starting nmap V. 2.12 by Fyodor (fyodor at dhp.com, www.insecure.org/nmap/) Interesting ports on localhost (127.0.0.1): Port State Protocol Service 21 open tcp ftp 22 open tcp ssh 25 open tcp smtp 80 open tcp http 111 open tcp sunrpc 3306 open tcp mysql Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 1 second What is listening on the sunrpc port, and should I turn it off? Also, how do you go about checking what's running on a particular TCP/IP port? Thanks, -Nate From mathew_benson at hotmail.com Fri Feb 1 14:02:01 2002 From: mathew_benson at hotmail.com (Mathew Benson) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 20:02:01 +0000 Subject: [Madlug] UW-Whitewater Beowulf cluster Message-ID: Dear Madlug I've been a member of this list for 8 months, but have yet to make it to a meeting so most of you won't know me. Last summer, I sent a message to the list about a Beowulf cluster that I was going to build at the University of Wisconsin in Whitewater. I finished it in November, and should finish my first distributed program this weekend. Its a simulation of heat flow through a uniform material. I'm a student double majoring in Physics and Management of Computer Systems, and I'm using this project as my capstone physics project. Therefore, I have to give a formal public presentation on my work (using Linux for scientific computing). Would anybody be interested in attending? I have an outdated webpage (the webmaster so graciously restricted me to read-only access to my own files so I haven't been able to update it since December) with information on the project at http://students.uww.edu/bensonmt17. Here's a quick overview of the cluster. First of all, its Linux based, of course. The cluster master is running Redhat 7.1, and the nodes are running stripped down Redhat 7.1 with kernel 2.4.12. The nodes, which provide the computational power, are all remote booting. I didn't opt for etherboot, because I do not have control over our DHCP server, and most of the nodes will reside outside of our private network. Instead, they boot from floppy and mount NFS as root. All nodes share the same NFS partition so to prevent file deadlock, they use the devfs kernel patch, and /tmp, /var, and /etc are copied to RAM disks when the init.d scripts are processed. With shared filespace, it was actually easier and faster to use host files for DNS resolution. I have a script that also sets the host name by parsing the ifconfig output and the hosts file. Because the nodes are remote booting and the hard drives are not even mounted, we can scale 1 to hundreds of nodes in a matter of minutes. When we're done with a node, we just pop the floppy out, reboot, and the PC returns to its original configuration. We have one cluster master, and two nodes online 24 hours a day for the developers. So far, we've only tested it on 11 nodes at one time. We've installed both MPICH and LAM/MPI for node connectivity, but I'm developing my code for LAM/MPI only because of its dynamic scalability. I'm currently using OpenDX for data presentation, but just installed IDL for testing purposes. The last I looked, there were no Beowulf class clusters on the Top500 clusters list. At least not any clusters that called themselves Beowulf class in their short description. Early tests indicated that if we joined all available computers on campus to the cluster, we might be able to make the Top500 list. Unfortunately the LinPack benchmark doesn't seem to balance well on Beowulf clusters, so performance gain has been far from linear so far. I'm new to Linux so I would probably be humbled by most if not all of the madlug members, but if I have anything to offer, I would be more than happy to give a seminar or a presentation at a madlug meeting. Would anybody be interested in a seminar where you build your own cluster or remote boot server and client? I'm an MS developer still making my conversion to linux, so this would be learning experience for both of us. Respectfully Mathew Benson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From zietlow at the-rob.com Fri Feb 1 14:03:36 2002 From: zietlow at the-rob.com (zietlow at the-rob.com) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:03:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> References: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Message-ID: <63625.64.73.37.245.1012593816.squirrel@www.soho.berbee.com> > Hi, > > I have a Debian (potato) box set up in my room, and I've been pretty > careful about setting it up with basic security. The reason for the > security is more theoretical than practical at the moment, because the > box is only networked locally. Thus, I'm not really concerned about the > fact that I'm using FTP, even though it's inherently insecure. What > bothers me is that when I run 'nmap -sS localhost', I get the > following: > > Starting nmap V. 2.12 by Fyodor (fyodor at dhp.com, > www.insecure.org/nmap/) Interesting ports on localhost (127.0.0.1): > Port State Protocol Service > 21 open tcp ftp > 22 open tcp ssh > 25 open tcp smtp > 80 open tcp http > 111 open tcp sunrpc > 3306 open tcp mysql > > Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 1 second portmapper is running, it's startup at default you can uinstall it unless you are going to be doing NFS shares and things like that. I believe you can do a 'apt-get remove portmapper' I can't remeber how much of a pain it is but I do believe it's tied to a couple of different packages. an 'lsof | grep 111' or 'lsof | grep TCP' should show you what's bound to what ports > > What is listening on the sunrpc port, and should I turn it off? Also, > how do you go about checking what's running on a particular TCP/IP > port? > > Thanks, > -Nate > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From carder at cae.wisc.edu Fri Feb 1 14:11:38 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:11:38 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net>; from nculwell@pyro.net on Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 01:52:52PM -0600 References: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Message-ID: <20020201141138.D7751@cae.wisc.edu> sunrpc, or the portmapper, is used for remote network services like NFS, rquotad, rstatd, rusersd. If you don't need them (especially NFS) then turn it off. To see what's listening, try netstat -elp it should give you some hints about UDP too. -Dale Thus spake Nate C-K (nculwell at pyro.net): > Hi, > > I have a Debian (potato) box set up in my room, and I've been pretty > careful about setting it up with basic security. The reason for the > security is more theoretical than practical at the moment, because the box > is only networked locally. Thus, I'm not really concerned about the fact > that I'm using FTP, even though it's inherently insecure. What bothers me > is that when I run 'nmap -sS localhost', I get the following: > > Starting nmap V. 2.12 by Fyodor (fyodor at dhp.com, www.insecure.org/nmap/) > Interesting ports on localhost (127.0.0.1): > Port State Protocol Service > 21 open tcp ftp > 22 open tcp ssh > 25 open tcp smtp > 80 open tcp http > 111 open tcp sunrpc > 3306 open tcp mysql > > Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 1 second > > What is listening on the sunrpc port, and should I turn it off? Also, how > do you go about checking what's running on a particular TCP/IP port? > > Thanks, > -Nate From dave at weccusa.org Fri Feb 1 14:05:49 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 01 Feb 2002 14:05:49 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> References: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Message-ID: <1012593949.22570.8.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> sunrpc is portmap. Basically it's for nfs and other rpc related services (rstat, rsync, etc). If your not using nfs (or the other rpc utilities) then remove portmap from starting. To see what's listening netstat is a good tool. On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 13:52, Nate C-K wrote: > Hi, > > I have a Debian (potato) box set up in my room, and I've been pretty > careful about setting it up with basic security. The reason for the > security is more theoretical than practical at the moment, because the box > is only networked locally. Thus, I'm not really concerned about the fact > that I'm using FTP, even though it's inherently insecure. What bothers me > is that when I run 'nmap -sS localhost', I get the following: > > Starting nmap V. 2.12 by Fyodor (fyodor at dhp.com, www.insecure.org/nmap/) > Interesting ports on localhost (127.0.0.1): > Port State Protocol Service > 21 open tcp ftp > 22 open tcp ssh > 25 open tcp smtp > 80 open tcp http > 111 open tcp sunrpc > 3306 open tcp mysql > > Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 1 second > > What is listening on the sunrpc port, and should I turn it off? Also, how > do you go about checking what's running on a particular TCP/IP port? > > Thanks, > -Nate > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From nculwell at pyro.net Fri Feb 1 14:16:58 2002 From: nculwell at pyro.net (Nate C-K) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 14:16:58 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security In-Reply-To: <63625.64.73.37.245.1012593816.squirrel@www.soho.berbee.com > References: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Message-ID: <4.1.20020201140821.00946660@pyro.net> >portmapper is running, it's startup at default you can uinstall it unless >you are going to be doing NFS shares and things like that. I believe you can >do a 'apt-get remove portmapper' I can't remeber how much of a pain it is >but I do believe it's tied to a couple of different packages. Thanks, that's just what I needed -- 'lsof | grep TCP' turned up portmap as the mystery service. Just one thing, though. You said: >an 'lsof | grep 111' or 'lsof | grep TCP' should show you what's bound to >what ports However, 'lsof | grep 111' doesn't turn up anything useful, because lsof lists the service names, not the actual ports they're running on. After consulting the lsof man page, I came up with the following command: lsof -i TCP:111 The output was: COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME portmap 86 root 4u IPv4 38 TCP *:sunrpc (LISTEN) Thanks again, Nate. From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 1 14:20:25 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:20:25 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Open TCP/IP ports, security In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> References: <4.1.20020201133845.00941680@pyro.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 <> > What is listening on the sunrpc port, and should I turn it off? Also, how > do you go about checking what's running on a particular TCP/IP port? I've noticed that to. Yeah, it does bug me. If you have a 2.4 kernel with IPTables support, do this: iptables -D INPUT -A -i -p tcp --sport 111 -j DROP iptables -D INPUT -A -i -p udp --sport 111 -j DROP Replacing as necessary. You would be better off, though, by setting DROP as the default (iptables -D INPUT -P DROP) (do the same for OUTPUT and FORWARD chains) and then allowing traffic as necessary. - -- The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxa+IwACgkQqpueKcacfLSWcgCggivSb79TXmR+QnX4542N1HS/ lzwAn3Hp4a5w6EDWgKr1bquBdwEzZyP9 =3ytC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tim at madweb.org Fri Feb 1 14:58:46 2002 From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:58:46 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] ISO site In-Reply-To: <002401c1ab3a$5902e7a0$bc4ba8c0@binc.net> References: <002401c1ab3a$5902e7a0$bc4ba8c0@binc.net> Message-ID: <1012597126.3c5b0186b6112@madweb.2y.net> Some local mirrors with phat pipes are: mirror.cs.wisc.edu - Maintained by the CS department, hosts some ISOs and things mirror.doit.wisc.edu mirror.sit.wisc.edu - Both in fact the same server, just different DNS names apparently. SIT used to have a ISO mirror up, but it wasn't kept very much up to date. But it looks like DoIT has taken over the mirroring and the mirrors are more up to date then they used to be. mirror.doit.wisc.edu and mirror.sit.wisc.edu are official mirrors for: * Linux Kernels * Red Hat Linux * Mandrake Linux * Debian Linux * FreeBSD * OpenBSD * LDP * Other odds and ends Cheers, Tim Quoting Peter Arzamendi : > Does anyone know of a good ISO site? > > > > Thanks, > > Pete > > > > -- Mad.Web * http://www.madweb.org * More exciting than bordom Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; Persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; Persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot. By Order of the Author -- Mark Twain, "Tom Sawyer" ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From will at cs.wisc.edu Fri Feb 1 15:50:52 2002 From: will at cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:50:52 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] ISO site In-Reply-To: <1012597126.3c5b0186b6112@madweb.2y.net>; from tim@madweb.org on Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 02:58:46PM -0600 References: <002401c1ab3a$5902e7a0$bc4ba8c0@binc.net> <1012597126.3c5b0186b6112@madweb.2y.net> Message-ID: <20020201155052.F19691@cs.wisc.edu> On Fri, 01 Feb 2002, Tim Schaab wrote: > Some local mirrors with phat pipes are: > mirror.cs.wisc.edu > - Maintained by the CS department, hosts some ISOs and things Just as an aside, mirror.cs.wisc.edu is severely rate-limited during the day (8a-6/8p), but the floodgates open up at night, so you might want to wait until then to download things. -will From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 1 21:39:29 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:39:29 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] UW-Whitewater Beowulf cluster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 <> > The last I looked, there were no Beowulf class clusters on the Top500 > clusters list. At least not any clusters that called themselves Beowulf > class in their short description. I'm pretty sure there are some Beowulf clusters on that list, but I'm not sure which ones. - -- Prof: So the American government went to IBM to come up with a data encryption standard and they came up with . . . Student: EBCDIC! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxbX3UACgkQqpueKcacfLQd1gCgoRKDBmbIyGjBmJWaGTxsYj82 onAAn1Qec5erAcjni3Wf6eviYh+ajIu8 =Oy/8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hardburn at runbox.com Sat Feb 2 13:10:28 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 13:10:28 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Ports open for Samba Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've got a file server with Samba running on it. This system is also acting as a WINS server (it actually just acts as a proxy for DNS requests; I run a seperate system as a DNS server on my network). I am also running an IPTables-based firewall on this system (no, this isn't the firewall for the whole network; I have a seperate machine for that). I have opened up ports 137 (netbios-ns) and 139 (netbios-ssn) on TCP, and 138 (netbios-dgm) UDP. However, I am unable to access the files on this from a Windows box. What ports need to be open under what protocols? Does the netbios-ns port need to be UDP as well? - -- Computer Science is the only discipline in which we view adding a new wing to a building as being maintenance --Jim Horning -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxcOagACgkQqpueKcacfLR9OQCeKtdD40y15aocVT9o+Q8KSvXL uPYAnie/I6/76yS0p28LX5P3iJHZTa21 =0FRM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wa4chq at qsl.net Sun Feb 3 06:52:01 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (Linux and Dos-Arachne User) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 07:52:01 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] re: OT... dos4me Message-ID: <200202031251.HAA11362@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Hello- Has anyone on the list tried "dos4me"? I know this is off topic, but I still can't get my Lexmark Z22 printer to work properly with RH 7.2. If I could get true dos to function with winMe, maybe I could get it to work in dos. Plus there are a few Linux programs like Pygmy or Basiclinux that work in dos, but with ME I can't use them.... Cheers- Neil -- This mail was written by user of Arachne, the Ultimate Internet Client -- Arachne V1.66, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ From jiml at slh.wisc.edu Sun Feb 3 12:42:04 2002 From: jiml at slh.wisc.edu (James E. Leinweber) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:42:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Re: Ports open for Samba In-Reply-To: (madlug-request@madisonlinux.org) Message-ID: <200202031842.MAA28393@slh.wisc.edu> Timm Murray asks: > I've got a file server with Samba running on it. This system is also > acting as a WINS server ... I have opened up ports 137 (netbios-ns) > and 139 (netbios-ssn) on TCP, and 138 (netbios-dgm) UDP. However, I > am unable to access the files on this from a Windows box... I'm at home and all the Microsoft NT & 2000 Server Resource Kits are at the office; if you have an accessible copy you could check the appendices. Or if Microsoft's web sites are up, a technet search might help. (At this moment, not.) Off hand, I believe you do need 137/UDP for nearly everything. Also, I believe WINS runs on 42/UDP and perhaps 42/TCP. Also, Windows-2000 tends to prefer 445/TCP to 139/TCP. -- James E. Leinweber Information Systems - State Laboratory of Hygiene - University of Wisconsin 465 Henry Mall, Madison WI 53706-1578 USA +1 608 262 0736 From kanouse at chorus.net Sun Feb 3 12:51:51 2002 From: kanouse at chorus.net (Dennis Kanouse) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:51:51 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Trouble connecting to internet Message-ID: I recently changed providers and I cannot connect to either my previous provider or my new provider. I am using SUSE7.3 with kinternet as my dialer. It dials but, either will not negotiate or disconnects immediately on connection. I am in "root". Any suggestions? The modem is a US Robotics V.92 external modem. Works on Windows 2000 with US Robotics software.\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020203/438b6526/attachment.bin From tim at madweb.org Sun Feb 3 14:46:48 2002 From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab) Date: 03 Feb 2002 14:46:48 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] /dev permission screwup Message-ID: <1012769209.324.5.camel@twoface> Greetings all, So here's a littl story about a man named Tim. Ok, about me. I wanted to change the group on /dev/cdrom* to the cdrom group. An extra space slipped in there and I ended up running this command: # chgrp cdrom cdrom * So now everything in the /dev directory is in the group cdrom. Anyone know of a way to correct this? I'm not sure what the permissions on everything were. Do ya think this might cause my system to start acting rather oddly? Well, let me know what you think. I'll be kicking myself and being really damn sure of what the command is before I hit enter. Cheers, Tim -- Mad.Web * http://www.madweb.org * More exciting than bordom Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; Persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; Persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot. By Order of the Author -- Mark Twain, "Tom Sawyer" From hardburn at runbox.com Sun Feb 3 22:24:02 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 22:24:02 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] /dev permission screwup In-Reply-To: <1012769209.324.5.camel@twoface> References: <1012769209.324.5.camel@twoface> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You can recreate all the devs with the MAKEDEV script. - -- Unix Beer: Comes in several different brands, in cans ranging from 8 oz. to 64 oz. Drinkers of Unix Beer display fierce brand loyalty, even though they claim that all the different brands taste almost identical. Sometimes the pop-tops break off when you try to open them, so you have to have your own can opener around for those occasions, in which case you either need a complete set instructions, or a friend who has been drinking Unix Beer for several years. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxeDOUACgkQqpueKcacfLQmkQCglp9vvp8Q4RES1UlcibPNJSxW cSIAoMGQYwcVGL8RCVUS2OzzHRw2TBoW =QIqX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu Mon Feb 4 20:58:02 2002 From: spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu (Steven P. Krause) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:58:02 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Linux Symposium Call for Papers Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204205321.009e83c0@students.wisc.edu> I was asked by Andrew Hutton of the Ottawa Linux Symposium to pass along this announcement. I don't know how many of you travel up to Canada very often, but it looks interesting. --Steve ------------------------------------------ Symposium Announcement The dates for the 2002 Symposium have been set. We have moved to June for 2002, from the 26th until the 29th. 2002 Call for Papers http://www.linuxsymposium.org/cfp.php We are now seeking paper proposals for 2002. The submission process has changed. You may submit your proposal online by registering at https://secure.linuxsymposium.org/ as a speaker. Deadline for submitting a proposal is March 1st, although we strongly recommend submitting as soon as possible. Potential Sponsors If your company might be interested in sponsoring the 2002 Symposium please contact us at sponsorship at linuxsymposium.org for details. Our sponsors play a critical role in allowing the Symposium to continue each year. http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~spkraus1/ Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive. From rferguson at voyager.net Tue Feb 5 03:12:34 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 04:12:34 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Bash exit status at the prompt. Message-ID: <200202051013.g15ADTn64401@mail4.mx.voyager.net> This is really simple, but it just occurred to me while working on LFS. PS1='[\u@\h \W $?]\$' Setting your PS1 environmental variable as above, specifically adding the $? will add exit status of the last command executed to your prompt. [raymond at a7v raymond 0]$ Maybe someone else will find this usefull. The idea occurred to me due to some shell talk at a UPL function when someone mentioned how nice it is that zsh gives exit status at the prompt. --ray. From chris at clotho.com Tue Feb 5 10:26:37 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:26:37 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] dpkg errors under OS X Message-ID: <3C6007BD.1010109@clotho.com> Hey all, This is actually a Mac OS X question, not a Linux question, but it is regarding dselect/dpkg. I hope you Debian folks don't mind going a bit afield to help me out... I'm using the fink package (a port of dselect, dpkg, apt-get to OS X from fink.sourceforge.net) which has given me excellent results until recently. It installs precompiled binaries in /sw to keep from messing with Apple stuff in /usr or /usr/local. The problem: Recently dpkg started spewing errors like the following message when running Install from dselect: dpkg: error processing /sw/var/cache/apt/archives/mutt_1.2.5i-2_darwin-powerpc.deb (--unpack): failed to open package info file `/sw/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control' for reading: No such file or directory Indeed, there is no directory tmp.ci after I see that error. If I manually create one (grasping at straws here), it is removed by a subsequent run of dselect Install. It's not a permissions issue: I run dselect under sudo and the dir is "drwxr-xr-x root admin". I don't have any idea what triggered the state I'm in. It started shortly after I installed Gnome, but I have no reason to believe that is a causal relationship. Because OS X is based on a case-insensitive filesystem (can you believe that? on a Unix box??) one of my first suspicions was that "control" is colliding with "Control" or some such error, but that doesn't explain why dpkg worked great for several weeks and now is hosed. I know this isn't much to go on, but google hasn't helped much yet. Any suggestions or theories will be appreciated. Chris From jiml at slh.wisc.edu Tue Feb 5 11:10:59 2002 From: jiml at slh.wisc.edu (James E. Leinweber) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:10:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Bash exit status at the prompt. In-Reply-To: (madlug-request@madisonlinux.org) Message-ID: <200202051710.LAA04646@slh.wisc.edu> Ray Ferguson comments: > This is really simple, but it just occurred to me while working on LFS. > PS1='[\u@\h \W $?]\$' Definitely cute. Bash doesn't have the Korn shell Error trap; on proprietary unix systems I've been accustomed to doing: trap 'print uhoh $?' ERR That gives me an extra line of output before the shell prompt whenever a command fails. -- James E. Leinweber Information Systems - State Laboratory of Hygiene - University of Wisconsin 465 Henry Mall, Madison WI 53706-1578 USA +1 608 262 0736 From SpanglerRP22 at uww.edu Wed Feb 6 12:59:11 2002 From: SpanglerRP22 at uww.edu (Ryan) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:59:11 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Epson Stylus Color 800 Problems Message-ID: <20020206125911.740e873b.SpanglerRP22@uww.edu> Hi, I'm using Slackware 8, and haven't been able to install my printer. Can someone tell me exactly what to install, and the order. Thanks. Let me know how to get it working. Thanks. Ryan From richardaries at hotmail.com Thu Feb 7 11:04:54 2002 From: richardaries at hotmail.com (Richard Aries) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:04:54 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Sun Details plans for Linux Servers Message-ID: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-831618.html?legacy=cnet&tag=pt.msnbc.feed..ne_8734640 Sun details plans for Linux servers By Tiffany Kary Staff Writer, CNET News.com February 7, 2002, 8:15 AM PT Sun Microsystems said Thursday that it would sell general-purpose Linux servers, a dramatic departure for the company that for years has advocated the use of its own Solaris operating system. The company, which also announced a big push into the storage market during its analyst conference in San Francisco this week, has three prongs to its Linux plans. Sun said it will ship a full version of the Linux operating system. It will also expand its line of Cobalt Linux appliances along with a line of low-end, general-purpose Linux/x86-based systems. The company added it will "aggressively participate in the Linux community," offering key components of its Solaris operating system for free. Richard Aries Technology Resources Manager (608) 268-1440, Extension 18 www.selp.org _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From will at yogurt66.org Thu Feb 7 16:17:34 2002 From: will at yogurt66.org (Will Burn) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:17:34 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Epson Stylus Color 800 Problems (Ryan) References: Message-ID: <3C62FCFE.6020803@yogurt66.org> That really depends on how you set up the printer. Try the print how-to's on linuxdoc.org or the possibly (not always) easier way, via webmin admin program. From spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu Thu Feb 7 19:11:53 2002 From: spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu (Steven P. Krause) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:11:53 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207190130.009f3ec0@students.wisc.edu> Hello all, Just a reminder that we have a Steep & Brew "Coffeehouse" meeting tomorrow -- Friday the 8th at 7pm. I couldn't determine whether any 'major event' will be at the Kohl Center tomorrow night, but as always, be aware of parking constraints downtown. Sometimes it makes sense to park in one of the ramps nearer the capitol. -Steve http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~spkraus1/ Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive. From jmjaco at charter.net Thu Feb 7 21:27:13 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:27:13 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Meeting Reminder In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207190130.009f3ec0@students.wisc.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207190130.009f3ec0@students.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <20020208032713.GA2827@strider> On 02/07/02, Steven P. Krause wrote: > I couldn't determine whether any 'major event' will be at the Kohl > Center tomorrow night, but as always, be aware of parking constraints > downtown. Sometimes it makes sense to park in one of the ramps nearer > the capitol. It's not just the Kohl Center. As I drove hither and yon looking for parking last time, I somehow found myself driving by the parking garages in front of the Civic Center. Same deal: $3 event parking. There were people streaming into the Civic Center. I keep forgetting to call, but I mean to call the Madison Parking number (266-4761 8-4:30) and ask them for some way to know when and where special event parking will be in farce. As nice as it is, that's the one single big disadvantage of State St. Steep 'n Brew. Maybe the city will give us a nice schedule, though. (And maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.) Jesse -- For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen From tony at webstix.com Fri Feb 8 09:47:10 2002 From: tony at webstix.com (Anthony C. Herman) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:47:10 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] DNS Not in Linuxconf? Message-ID: <3C63F2FE.709590A4@webstix.com> Hello All! Just a quick thing I can't figure out...I just started the named daemon on a server. I usually like to configure it using Linuxconf since it's much faster and easier, but it does not show up there. I looked under modules (I'm guessing where you can add such things to LC) and it's not there either. I even restarted linuxconf. Still not there. Any ideas??? Thanks in advance. -Tony -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Anthony C. Herman - Webstix, Inc. USA Office: 608-712-5878 "Web Sites That Stick!" FAX: 608-223-0944 tony at webstix.com http://www.webstix.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.madisonclick.com/ http://www.madisonsublets.com/ From dave at weccusa.org Fri Feb 8 09:49:51 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 08 Feb 2002 09:49:51 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Job opening... Message-ID: <1013183391.10014.8.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> We're looking for a Junior System Administrator. Responsible for helping the System Administrator support MS Desktops (including a M$ Terminal Server) and Linux servers. Little or no travel required and is Mon-Fri 8-5(or so depending on need) very close to downtown. Nice opportunity to grow and learn new skills. Here's the info: SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATOR (Junior) Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corporation on Madison's near east side has created a new position to support its IS functions. You'll provide network, workstation, server, and application maintenance, and troubleshooting expertise. Requirements: experience adding/removing PC hardware from a network, performing hardware repair, TCP/IP networking, MS Desktop application support, MS Terminal server w/CITRIX, system administration, and Linux experience. BS in Computer Science or HSD + 2 yrs network administration experience required. PHP, Javascript, PERL, Access, SQL, and VBA programming skills preferred. Casual environment & comprehensive benefits! Send cover letter with salary requirements and resume to: WECC Attn: Sarah P.O. Box 3069 Madison, WI 5 3704-0069 www.weccusa.org hr at weccusa.org An equal opportunity employer -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu Fri Feb 8 12:28:38 2002 From: ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu (Aaron Schumacher) Date: 08 Feb 2002 12:28:38 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] DNS Not in Linuxconf? In-Reply-To: <3C63F2FE.709590A4@webstix.com> References: <3C63F2FE.709590A4@webstix.com> Message-ID: <1013192918.338.668.camel@wushu> I don't know about the linuxconf issue, but I do have a question... Isn't named a distinct "thing" from DNS (bind)? I don't know enough to speak authoritatively on this... - Aaron On Fri, 2002-02-08 at 09:47, Anthony C. Herman wrote: > Hello All! > > Just a quick thing I can't figure out...I just started the named daemon > on a server. I usually like to configure it using Linuxconf since it's > much faster and easier, but it does not show up there. I looked under > modules (I'm guessing where you can add such things to LC) and it's not > there either. > > I even restarted linuxconf. Still not there. > > Any ideas??? > > Thanks in advance. > -Tony > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Anthony C. Herman - Webstix, Inc. USA Office: 608-712-5878 > "Web Sites That Stick!" FAX: 608-223-0944 > > tony at webstix.com http://www.webstix.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.madisonclick.com/ http://www.madisonsublets.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From dave at denizin.com Fri Feb 8 18:56:15 2002 From: dave at denizin.com (David W. Jablonski) Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:56:15 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] DNS Not in Linuxconf? In-Reply-To: <1013192918.338.668.camel@wushu> References: <3C63F2FE.709590A4@webstix.com> <1013192918.338.668.camel@wushu> Message-ID: <1013216179.993.13.camel@opiate> named is the name of the executable that listens for dns queries. bind is the package of dns utilities (including the named daemon, nslookup, etc.). I found this at the linuxconf home page (run it from the command line): linuxconf --setmod dnsconf http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/linuxconf/ is the official homepage. On Fri, 2002-02-08 at 12:28, Aaron Schumacher wrote: > I don't know about the linuxconf issue, but I do have a question... > Isn't named a distinct "thing" from DNS (bind)? I don't know enough to > speak authoritatively on this... > > - Aaron > > > On Fri, 2002-02-08 at 09:47, Anthony C. Herman wrote: > > Hello All! > > > > Just a quick thing I can't figure out...I just started the named daemon > > on a server. I usually like to configure it using Linuxconf since it's > > much faster and easier, but it does not show up there. I looked under > > modules (I'm guessing where you can add such things to LC) and it's not > > there either. > > > > I even restarted linuxconf. Still not there. > > > > Any ideas??? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > -Tony > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Anthony C. Herman - Webstix, Inc. USA Office: 608-712-5878 > > "Web Sites That Stick!" FAX: 608-223-0944 > > > > tony at webstix.com http://www.webstix.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.madisonclick.com/ http://www.madisonsublets.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From jmjaco at charter.net Mon Feb 11 16:23:26 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:23:26 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat Message-ID: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> Um, that's me. I've installed Red Hat 7.2 in a Vmware virtual machine, and would like to know just how I'm supposed to be able to do a few things here. Like: 1. How do I search the list of installed packages for the name of a package that does certain things? Let's say I want to search package descriptions/names for the string 'dhcp'. (A documentation reference would be good, but what I've seen so far is a little foreign to me in general. For example, there is definately not a 1:1 correspondence between features of dpkg and rpm.) 2. What do I use to browse through the available packages on the CDs I have? I mean something besides the shell. I'm looking for an interface like aptitude or dselect in Debian. 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now something like apt-get for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more importantly, how does one install something like that if it's not installed already? (See previous question) I don't necessarily need to grab things from the internet (though that would be nice) -- I just want automated installation of packages based on the dependencies of the packages I'm requesting. Is that possible? 4. Is it OK for me to edit the configuration files in /etc as I see fit, or am I breaking something that way? Thanks! Soon I'll be checking out FreeBSD, SuSE, and maybe others too! Why? Not just for the sheer fun and joy. I want to see how easily some things I've written will install and run on those systems. Awaiting guidance, Jesse -- His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy comes in the morning. http://www.grace-els.org From tinberg at securepipe.com Mon Feb 11 22:41:10 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:41:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Jesse Jacobsen wrote: > 1. How do I search the list of installed packages for the name of a > package that does certain things? Let's say I want to search package > descriptions/names for the string 'dhcp'. (A documentation reference > would be good, but what I've seen so far is a little foreign to me in > general. For example, there is definately not a 1:1 correspondence > between features of dpkg and rpm.) Check out "rpm -q | --query". There are several queries you can make such as "-a | --all" which shows the name and version of all currently installed packages, "-i" which shows the full package information such as the description and "-l | --list" which shows the file contents of the package. rpm -qa = Query all installed package names, versions rpm -qai = Query all installed package info rpm -qal = Query all installed package files For your particular needs you may wish to investigate the "-qf | --queryformat" option which allows you to specify a custom format string for the query output. This option did perform very poorly in older versions of RPM but is quite speedy now-a-days. rpm --querytags = Show all available format string tags rpm -qa --queryformat '%{NAME},%{DISTRIBUTION}' = Show with format, ie. --SNIP-- gtk-themes,Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 6.2 / i386 mpg321,Fresh RPMS --SNIP-- > > 2. What do I use to browse through the available packages on the CDs I > have? I mean something besides the shell. I'm looking for an > interface like aptitude or dselect in Debian. All the above tools also can take a file argument "-f | -file" or URL rpm -qf *.rpm rpm -qif *.rpm rpm -qil http://foobix.com/RPMS/foo-1.2.3-1.i386.rpm = Show info and all files in package If you want a full screen interface, I don't know, there isn't any "official" front end GUI (curses or X11) for RPM package management. Several exist, however, like kpackage. > 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now something like apt-get > for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more importantly, how does > one install something like that if it's not installed already? (See > previous question) I don't necessarily need to grab things from the > internet (though that would be nice) -- I just want automated > installation of packages based on the dependencies of the packages > I'm requesting. Is that possible? > apt-get itself has has RPM package support added. New versions of Connectiva (a Brazillian distro that did the apt-rpm work) and newer versions Mandrake use apt with RPM for package management. There are a few new apt-gettable RPM repositories available. I really don't have any experience with using this tool to manage an RPM based distro however. > 4. Is it OK for me to edit the configuration files in /etc as I see fit, > or am I breaking something that way? You should be fine in editing /etc. On RedHat systems, may configuration options are housed in the /etc/sysconfig directory as shell environment variables that get sourced by the various startup scripts. RPM doesn't yet have nearly as advanced config file handling, though. You won't be given the option to diff an existing config file agains the package maintainers version, or be able to interactively choose which one to use. What it will do is try to intelligently manage the config files according to the options used when the RPM was packaged. It can: 1 ) If old config file matches origional version that was packaged, replace it with new version automatically. 2 ) If old config file has been changed, and the package maintainer believes that the new config file is required for the software to function (new format, etc.) then replace config file, saving the old one as $name.rpmsave. I believe it also informs the user. 3 ) If old config file has been changed and the new one not required for software to function but it might be useful for the admin, leave the existing file alone, and write new config file as $name.rpmnew. 4 ) Config file in RPM can be set to never replace existing file. Part of this is that RPMS are generally expected to be installed non-interactively and no provision for interactive installation has been made. This has its trade-offs, more visible to a Debian user. Of course it makes it much easier to automate package management without requiring as much add-on software as Debian does. One thing you might notice about RPM based systems is that most 3rd party RPMS are pretty inexpertly made. There really are no hard packaging guidelines such as Debian has so it is more common to find packages where the config files and docs are not marked as such, files are installed willy-nilly, or the package has been compiled agains development libraries that only exist on the developer's system. This particular infraction is made worse by the fact that RPM automatically runs ldd agains the binaries that it builds and uses this output to automatically generate much of the dependancy information, causing errors like "package depends on libfoo.so.1" when you might not have any idea what package libfoo.so.1 might belong to, like "baz-1.2.3-2.i386.rpm". Annother consideration is that there are several RPM based distributions that all create packages to different internal standards. They can be as different from one annother as RH is from Debian. This means that RPM packages built agains one RPM based system won't necessarily install cleanly on any other RPM based distro, just as RPMS converted to DEBs by alien generally don't integrate well. One often ends up --force'ing packages to install because glibc is called "glibc-2.1.3-6" on one system and "libc6-2.1.4-5" on annother. One other difference, much of the functionality that is spread out among several different dpkg tools (dpkg-source, dpkg-buildpackage, dpkg, dpkg-blahblahblah) is integrated cleanly into one consistent command line tool, rpm(8). rpm(8) may actually be a frontend for several other tools located in /usr/lib/rpm but this is something that has never been an issue for me. Whew, I should stop before I write a book on RPM 8^) - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . It is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. -- Grace Murray Hopper -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxonOYACgkQz1Jf4HRw5ffNjgCgx26n8/eqmj3QxH9rRnpOaggV Ee0An0AX2OyH99zKRfcegvp2xUB+ybZD =2o0t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From willb at cs.wisc.edu Mon Feb 11 22:56:40 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:56:40 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013489800.25285.19.camel@h192-168-1-101> On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 22:41, Mark Tinberg wrote: > If you want a full screen interface, I don't know, there isn't any > "official" front end GUI (curses or X11) for RPM package management. > Several exist, however, like kpackage. I think that "glint" and "gnorpm" are about as official as one can get with RPM front-ends. glint was/is developed by RH, but is pretty ugly; I think that a number of RH hackers have had their fingers in gnorpm since 1999 or so; RH does employ Havoc Pennington and some other prominent GNOME hackers. wrt /etc -- if you don't care about using the automated setup tools, you won't hurt anything. If an RPM file overwrites a config file, it will save the old one as .rpmorig -- but, as Mark said, a lot of that depends on whether the package maintainer designated a file as a config file. I have been using RH for over 6 years and the only thing I've used the automated tools for is getting 600dpi out of my HP inkjet. :-) wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich die: willb at acm.org | Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." **GnuPG public key: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/pubkey From chris at hddesign.com Tue Feb 12 08:46:39 2002 From: chris at hddesign.com (Chris Meyers) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:46:39 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider>; from jmjaco@charter.net on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:23:26PM -0600 References: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> Message-ID: <20020212084639.A1639@hddesign.com> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:23:26PM -0600, Jesse Jacobsen wrote: > Um, that's me. I've installed Red Hat 7.2 in a Vmware virtual machine, > and would like to know just how I'm supposed to be able to do a few > things here. ... > > 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now something like apt-get > for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more importantly, how does > one install something like that if it's not installed already? (See > previous question) I don't necessarily need to grab things from the > internet (though that would be nice) -- I just want automated > installation of packages based on the dependencies of the packages > I'm requesting. Is that possible? > Freshrpms has an apt rpm built specifically for RH 7.2. I haven't tried it yet because I don't want to go experimenting with my production box right now, but it looks pretty promising and every other RPM I've gotten from this site has been solid. You can get it here: http://enigma.freshrpms.net/rpm.html?id=616 There is also a bit of an apt with rpm intro page here with apt/sources.lists: http://freshrpms.net/apt/ Hope that helps, Chris Meyers From jmjaco at charter.net Tue Feb 12 10:04:55 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:04:55 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> Message-ID: <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> Thanks, Mark! This is a great help. I take it you do most RPM package management operations from the command line, then. Way back when I tried Red Hat (v. 4.1) before becoming a Debian person -- and before I knew much about Linux at all -- I remember typing "rpm" at a command line in X and getting a GUI RPM browser, somewhat gmc-like. I thought that was part of the rpm tool, but maybe it's been dropped. It was clunky anyway. I had expressed an interest in trying SuSE before, but it seems they don't make their installable distro freely available as ISO's. So I'm downloading Slackware 8 iso's instead. Reading about "package" management in Slackware, I'm somewhat impressed. As I understand it, they just use structured tarballs, but there are still several tools for keeping your bits and pieces in order. Of course, dependencies are probably a nightmare. On 02/11/02, Mark Tinberg wrote: > This particular infraction is made worse by the fact that RPM > automatically runs ldd agains the binaries that it builds and uses > this output to automatically generate much of the dependancy > information, causing errors like "package depends on libfoo.so.1" when > you might not have any idea what package libfoo.so.1 might belong to, > like "baz-1.2.3-2.i386.rpm". I suppose what you'd do in this situation is run rpm on some authoritative cache of package files with the -l (list files in package) switch, and grep the output for "libfoo". Maybe you'd even and do something like "find /top/of/repository -name '*rpm' | xargs rpm - -l | grep 'libfoo'". Thanks again, Jesse -- For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen From jmjaco at charter.net Tue Feb 12 10:11:13 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:11:13 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <1013489800.25285.19.camel@h192-168-1-101> References: <1013489800.25285.19.camel@h192-168-1-101> Message-ID: <20020212161113.GB7283@strider> On 02/11/02, Will Benton wrote: > On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 22:41, Mark Tinberg wrote: > > > If you want a full screen interface, I don't know, there isn't any > > "official" front end GUI (curses or X11) for RPM package management. > > Several exist, however, like kpackage. > > I think that "glint" and "gnorpm" are about as official as one can get > with RPM front-ends. glint was/is developed by RH, but is pretty ugly; > I think that a number of RH hackers have had their fingers in gnorpm > since 1999 or so; RH does employ Havoc Pennington and some other > prominent GNOME hackers. It must have been "glint" that I was thinking about from RH 4.1. I'll check out gnorpm too. I prefer text-mode "gui"s for this, because you usually run package managers as root to do real work, and I'm more comfortable as root on a console. Thanks! Jesse -- For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 12 10:23:55 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: 12 Feb 2002 10:23:55 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> References: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> Message-ID: <1013531035.9808.6.camel@h192-168-1-101> On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 10:04, Jesse Jacobsen wrote: > I suppose what you'd do in this situation is run rpm on some > authoritative cache of package files with the -l (list files in package) > switch, and grep the output for "libfoo". Maybe you'd even and do > something like "find /top/of/repository -name '*rpm' | xargs rpm - options> -l | grep 'libfoo'". There is the --whatprovides option to RPM. IIRC the new version of RPM will let you run that on a database (that comes with the distro) of all the packages that come with RH 7.2. I could be wrong, though. However, rpmfind.net has a global search for "whatprovides" info across all RPM-based distributions and many random contributed RPMS. There is a command-line tool for accessing rpmfind's db. I usually "rpm --rebuild" random packages to make sure that they're linked against the proper sonames on my machine, though. wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich die: willb at acm.org | Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." **GnuPG public key: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/pubkey From carder at cae.wisc.edu Tue Feb 12 10:36:03 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:03 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020212160455.GA7283@strider>; from jmjaco@charter.net on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:04:55AM -0600 References: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> Message-ID: <20020212103603.A12615@cae.wisc.edu> Thus spake Jesse Jacobsen (jmjaco at charter.net): > So I'm > downloading Slackware 8 iso's instead. Reading about "package" > management in Slackware, I'm somewhat impressed. As I understand it, > they just use structured tarballs, but there are still several tools for > keeping your bits and pieces in order. Of course, dependencies are > probably a nightmare. You bet they're a nightmare. And although tarballs *seem* ok, they have bad habits of overwriting conf files and leaving stale pieces around. Maybe things have changed since 7.0, but I doubt it. I remember wanting to upgrade X from 3 to 4 and found that more or less you couldn't. So then I looked into upgrading all of slackware, which ended up being a reinstalation anyway. I am sure slackware has its uses and follwers, but it certainly wasn't for me. (this exact issue has kept me from most of the BSD's as well, save OpenBSD for some servers). I think everyone should be forced to try slackware for a while just to learn the lesson of how linux distributions are not very practical without some sort of package management :-) -Dale (i hope this is not the beginning of a flame war) From tinberg at securepipe.com Tue Feb 12 19:23:12 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:23:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Jesse Jacobsen wrote: > Thanks, Mark! This is a great help. I take it you do most RPM package > management operations from the command line, then. Way back when I > tried Red Hat (v. 4.1) before becoming a Debian person -- and before I > knew much about Linux at all -- I remember typing "rpm" at a command > line in X and getting a GUI RPM browser, somewhat gmc-like. I thought > that was part of the rpm tool, but maybe it's been dropped. It was > clunky anyway. That was probably glint, mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Glint was the official GUI for RPM but was dropped several years ago. It was written in Tcl/Tk or Python/Tk as I remember, and was a bit slow and ugly. > I suppose what you'd do in this situation is run rpm on some > authoritative cache of package files with the -l (list files in package) > switch, and grep the output for "libfoo". Maybe you'd even and do > something like "find /top/of/repository -name '*rpm' | xargs rpm - options> -l | grep 'libfoo'". That kind of thing is how I get a lot of batch tasks done with RPM. For example if I want to remove all the devel packages on a system that won't be used for compiling I can "rpm -qa | grep devel | xargs rpm -e ". - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink what you don't like, and do what you'd rather not. -- Mark Twain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxpwAAACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fesSgCfS+/OpzY0BdUl89FBIZ/MyPbv HAYAn0TTy/Qrs6qcJhjpcFwKA0FgBR6W =Fjey -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu Tue Feb 12 19:19:37 2002 From: ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu (Aaron Schumacher) Date: 12 Feb 2002 19:19:37 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20020212103603.A12615@cae.wisc.edu> References: <20020211222326.GA5402@strider> <20020212160455.GA7283@strider> <20020212103603.A12615@cae.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <1013563187.430.10.camel@wushu> I'm a big fan of Slackware. The only time I used Slackware "packages" however, was for the install (from cd, in my case). I'm a big fan of installing things from source tar.gz's these days, and have found it to be effective. ("Biggest" thing I've made: evolution without any of the rest of ximian, will do X after I see if there are follow-up releases to 4.2.) Upgrading always seems to work properly for me. ./configure tells me about dependencies, and I can fix them. Seriously though, I don't know how many people spend all their time on linux installing things. Once everything is installed (maybe 3 days after system install), can't you just USE the computer? IMHO, there comes a time when everything has been tweaked, and baring security updates here and there, you can just leave the system alone. Anyway... who needs another two cents? - Aaron On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 10:36, Dale W. Carder wrote: > Thus spake Jesse Jacobsen (jmjaco at charter.net): > > So I'm > > downloading Slackware 8 iso's instead. Reading about "package" > > management in Slackware, I'm somewhat impressed. As I understand it, > > they just use structured tarballs, but there are still several tools for > > keeping your bits and pieces in order. Of course, dependencies are > > probably a nightmare. > > You bet they're a nightmare. And although tarballs *seem* ok, they > have bad habits of overwriting conf files and leaving stale pieces > around. Maybe things have changed since 7.0, but I doubt it. > I remember wanting to upgrade X from 3 to 4 and found that more or > less you couldn't. So then I looked into upgrading all of slackware, > which ended up being a reinstalation anyway. I am sure slackware > has its uses and follwers, but it certainly wasn't for me. (this > exact issue has kept me from most of the BSD's as well, save OpenBSD > for some servers). > > I think everyone should be forced to try slackware for a while just > to learn the lesson of how linux distributions are not very practical > without some sort of package management :-) > > -Dale > (i hope this is not the beginning of a flame war) > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From tinberg at securepipe.com Tue Feb 12 19:36:28 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:36:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <1013531035.9808.6.camel@h192-168-1-101> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12 Feb 2002, Will Benton wrote: > I usually "rpm --rebuild" random packages to make sure that they're > linked against the proper sonames on my machine, though. I do that too, as whatever RPM based distro I happen to be on is usually not the distro used to build the binary packages that I wish to install 8^). - --rebuild and its friends "-bb specfile.spec" and "-tb tarball.tar.gz" encompass the functionality of several Debian utilities such as dpkg-source, dpkg-buildpackage and/or "debian/rules binary". Many times you will try to build a package and find out that the .spec file is just plain _wrong_ for your system and have to edit it. Fortunately .spec files are pretty simple to understand and edit. One thing about building RPMS is that you cannot --short-circuit past the build phase and make a binary RPM out of a pre-built source directory. If you want it to actually build a binary package, you have to run through the entire build process. This is probably hardcoded so that an SRPM will always be able to be turned into the binary RPM accompanying it. - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . I need to discuss BUY-BACK PROVISIONS with at least six studio SLEAZEBALLS!! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxpwx0ACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fcZCQCcC52faRqOspM7ELiGOjo9JJ5I T4UAoMPs6M1gk7l1fP7EOioA947w7Dt8 =jGBK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 12 19:55:45 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: 12 Feb 2002 19:55:45 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013565346.23246.3.camel@h192-168-1-101> On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 19:36, Mark Tinberg wrote: > One thing about building > RPMS is that you cannot --short-circuit past the build phase and make a > binary RPM out of a pre-built source directory. If you want it to > actually build a binary package, you have to run through the entire build > process. This is probably hardcoded so that an SRPM will always be able > to be turned into the binary RPM accompanying it. I think the reason for this is to ensure that any modifications to the build process are provided as patches to include in the SRPM; one of the stated design goals of RPM is "pristine sources". However, if you don't care about cleanliness, there's a little program called "checkinstall" that basically strace's "make install" and makes a binary package (rpm/deb/etc) out of it. wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich die: willb at acm.org | Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." **GnuPG public key: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/pubkey From tinberg at securepipe.com Tue Feb 12 20:12:46 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:12:46 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <1013565346.23246.3.camel@h192-168-1-101> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12 Feb 2002, Will Benton wrote: > On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 19:36, Mark Tinberg wrote: > > One thing about building > > RPMS is that you cannot --short-circuit past the build phase and make a > > binary RPM out of a pre-built source directory. If you want it to > > actually build a binary package, you have to run through the entire build > > process. This is probably hardcoded so that an SRPM will always be able > > to be turned into the binary RPM accompanying it. > > I think the reason for this is to ensure that any modifications to the > build process are provided as patches to include in the SRPM; one of the > stated design goals of RPM is "pristine sources". However, if you don't > care about cleanliness, there's a little program called "checkinstall" > that basically strace's "make install" and makes a binary package > (rpm/deb/etc) out of it. I think that we are saying exactally the same thing just in two different ways. My explination kind of sucks. 8^) - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . If you're worried by earthquakes and nuclear war, As well as by traffic and crime, Consider how worry-free gophers are, Though living on burrowed time. -- Richard Armour, WSJ, 11/7/83 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxpy58ACgkQz1Jf4HRw5ffZzACfYyYhl0Z9DnBjEtkEWFojQwm+ HOsAoMlLFw0oMHJXFhwJne1+fFJZjKQa =MDRK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hskim at ece.wisc.edu Wed Feb 13 18:03:05 2002 From: hskim at ece.wisc.edu (Ho-Seop Kim) Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:03:05 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] clone system call Message-ID: <1013644985.1827.50.camel@coolest> AFAIK, the pthread library (LinuxThreads) that comes with glibc is built on clone system call. This clone system call is unique to Linux. It seems to me that clone has nothing to do with kernel_thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My question is, why do they chose to implement LWP this way? (For example, Solaris LWP is built on kernel threads) -- Ho-Seop _______________________________________________________________________ Ho-Seop Kim, Electrical & Computer Engineering, University of Wisconsin mailto:hskim at ece.wisc.edu http://www.ece.wisc.edu/~hskim From garrettpk at yahoo.com Wed Feb 13 20:26:45 2002 From: garrettpk at yahoo.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:26:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug digest, Vol 1 #726 - 10 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020214022645.99384.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com> I used up2date for automatic package installs on redhat... You have to run "rhn_register" from the command line and register with redhat first. Once registed you can run a command like up2date -i mysql then you have to do something with a key... "just copy and paste the text it has the command when you run it the first time. Then your golden.. If you hose up rhn_register check man pages on it there is an editing option. up2date also has a man page. Just got that working today at work as a matter of fact. I hope that this will help you. --- madlug-request at madisonlinux.org wrote: > Send Madlug mailing list submissions to > madlug at madisonlinux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > madlug-request at madisonlinux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Madlug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Chris Meyers) > 2. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Jesse Jacobsen) > 3. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Jesse Jacobsen) > 4. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Will Benton) > 5. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Dale W. Carder) > 6. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Mark Tinberg) > 7. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Aaron Schumacher) > 8. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Mark Tinberg) > 9. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Will Benton) > 10. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Mark Tinberg) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:46:39 -0600 > From: Chris Meyers > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: Re: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to > learn about Red Hat > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:23:26PM -0600, Jesse > Jacobsen wrote: > > Um, that's me. I've installed Red Hat 7.2 in a > Vmware virtual machine, > > and would like to know just how I'm supposed to be > able to do a few > > things here. > ... > > > > 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now > something like apt-get > > for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more > importantly, how does > > one install something like that if it's not > installed already? (See > > previous question) I don't necessarily need to > grab things from the > > internet (though that would be nice) -- I just > want automated > > installation of packages based on the > dependencies of the packages > > I'm requesting. Is that possible? > > > Freshrpms has an apt rpm built specifically for RH > 7.2. I haven't tried it yet because I don't want to > go experimenting with my production box right now, > but it looks pretty promising and every other RPM > I've gotten from this site has been solid. You can > get it here: > > http://enigma.freshrpms.net/rpm.html?id=616 > > There is also a bit of an apt with rpm intro page > here with apt/sources.lists: > > http://freshrpms.net/apt/ > > Hope that helps, > Chris Meyers > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:04:55 -0600 > From: Jesse Jacobsen > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: Re: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to > learn about Red Hat > > Thanks, Mark! This is a great help. I take it you > do most RPM package > management operations from the command line, then. > Way back when I > tried Red Hat (v. 4.1) before becoming a Debian > person -- and before I > knew much about Linux at all -- I remember typing > "rpm" at a command > line in X and getting a GUI RPM browser, somewhat > gmc-like. I thought > that was part of the rpm tool, but maybe it's been > dropped. It was > clunky anyway. > > I had expressed an interest in trying SuSE before, > but it seems they > don't make their installable distro freely available > as ISO's. So I'm > downloading Slackware 8 iso's instead. Reading > about "package" > management in Slackware, I'm somewhat impressed. As > I understand it, > they just use structured tarballs, but there are > still several tools for > keeping your bits and pieces in order. Of course, > dependencies are > probably a nightmare. > > On 02/11/02, Mark Tinberg wrote: > > This particular infraction is made worse by the > fact that RPM > > automatically runs ldd agains the binaries that it > builds and uses > > this output to automatically generate much of the > dependancy > > information, causing errors like "package depends > on libfoo.so.1" when > > you might not have any idea what package > libfoo.so.1 might belong to, > > like "baz-1.2.3-2.i386.rpm". > > I suppose what you'd do in this situation is run rpm > on some > authoritative cache of package files with the -l > (list files in package) > switch, and grep the output for "libfoo". Maybe > you'd even and do > something like "find /top/of/repository -name '*rpm' > | xargs rpm - options> -l | grep 'libfoo'". > > Thanks again, > > Jesse > > -- > For by grace you have been saved through faith, and > that not of > yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, > lest anyone should > boast. > OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:11:13 -0600 > From: Jesse Jacobsen > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: Re: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to > learn about Red Hat > > On 02/11/02, Will Benton wrote: > > On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 22:41, Mark Tinberg wrote: > > > > > If you want a full screen interface, I don't > know, there isn't any > > > "official" front end GUI (curses or X11) for RPM > package management. > > > Several exist, however, like kpackage. > > > > I think that "glint" and "gnorpm" are about as > official as one can get > > with RPM front-ends. glint was/is developed by > RH, but is pretty ugly; > > I think that a number of RH hackers have had their > fingers in gnorpm > > since 1999 or so; RH does employ Havoc Pennington > and some other > > prominent GNOME hackers. > > It must have been "glint" that I was thinking about > from RH 4.1. I'll > check out gnorpm too. I prefer text-mode "gui"s for > this, because you > usually run package managers as root to do real > work, and I'm more > comfortable as root on a console. > > Thanks! > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From garrettpk at yahoo.com Wed Feb 13 20:31:01 2002 From: garrettpk at yahoo.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:31:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug digest, Vol 1 #725 - 3 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020214023101.39781.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> All of your packages get registered to red hat network when you create up2date.. That would be the easiest way I can think of to check. KDE does have a package manager as well. Red Hat tends to put things in unusual places. It is definitely unique in that sense. Garrett --- madlug-request at madisonlinux.org wrote: > Send Madlug mailing list submissions to > madlug at madisonlinux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > madlug-request at madisonlinux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Madlug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Long-time Debian user wants to learn about Red > Hat (Jesse Jacobsen) > 2. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Mark Tinberg) > 3. Re: Long-time Debian user wants to learn about > Red Hat (Will Benton) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:23:26 -0600 > From: Jesse Jacobsen > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to > learn about Red Hat > > Um, that's me. I've installed Red Hat 7.2 in a > Vmware virtual machine, > and would like to know just how I'm supposed to be > able to do a few > things here. > > Like: > > 1. How do I search the list of installed packages > for the name of a > package that does certain things? Let's say I > want to search package > descriptions/names for the string 'dhcp'. (A > documentation reference > would be good, but what I've seen so far is a > little foreign to me in > general. For example, there is definately not a > 1:1 correspondence > between features of dpkg and rpm.) > > 2. What do I use to browse through the available > packages on the CDs I > have? I mean something besides the shell. I'm > looking for an > interface like aptitude or dselect in Debian. > > 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now > something like apt-get > for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more > importantly, how does > one install something like that if it's not > installed already? (See > previous question) I don't necessarily need to > grab things from the > internet (though that would be nice) -- I just > want automated > installation of packages based on the > dependencies of the packages > I'm requesting. Is that possible? > > 4. Is it OK for me to edit the configuration files > in /etc as I see fit, > or am I breaking something that way? > > Thanks! > > Soon I'll be checking out FreeBSD, SuSE, and maybe > others too! Why? > Not just for the sheer fun and joy. I want to see > how easily some > things I've written will install and run on those > systems. > > Awaiting guidance, > > Jesse > > -- > His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for > life; Weeping may > endure for a night, But joy comes in the morning. > http://www.grace-els.org > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:41:10 -0600 (CST) > From: Mark Tinberg > To: Jesse Jacobsen > cc: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: Re: [Madlug] Long-time Debian user wants to > learn about Red Hat > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Jesse Jacobsen wrote: > > > 1. How do I search the list of installed packages > for the name of a > > package that does certain things? Let's say I > want to search package > > descriptions/names for the string 'dhcp'. (A > documentation reference > > would be good, but what I've seen so far is a > little foreign to me in > > general. For example, there is definately not > a 1:1 correspondence > > between features of dpkg and rpm.) > > Check out "rpm -q | --query". There are several > queries you can make such > as "-a | --all" which shows the name and version of > all currently > installed packages, "-i" which shows the full > package information such as > the description and "-l | --list" which shows the > file contents of the > package. > > rpm -qa = Query all installed package names, > versions > rpm -qai = Query all installed package info > rpm -qal = Query all installed package files > > For your particular needs you may wish to > investigate the > "-qf | --queryformat" option which allows you to > specify a custom format > string for the query output. This option did > perform very poorly in older > versions of RPM but is quite speedy now-a-days. > > rpm --querytags = Show all available format string > tags > rpm -qa --queryformat '%{NAME},%{DISTRIBUTION}' = > Show with format, ie. > > --SNIP-- > gtk-themes,Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 6.2 / > i386 > mpg321,Fresh RPMS > --SNIP-- > > > > > 2. What do I use to browse through the available > packages on the CDs I > > have? I mean something besides the shell. I'm > looking for an > > interface like aptitude or dselect in Debian. > > All the above tools also can take a file argument > "-f | -file" or URL > > rpm -qf *.rpm > rpm -qif *.rpm > rpm -qil > http://foobix.com/RPMS/foo-1.2.3-1.i386.rpm = Show > info and all > > files in package > > If you want a full screen interface, I don't know, > there isn't any > "official" front end GUI (curses or X11) for RPM > package management. > Several exist, however, like kpackage. > > > 3. I've heard rpm proponents say that there's now > something like apt-get > > for rpms. Is that true? What is it? And more > importantly, how does > > one install something like that if it's not > installed already? (See > > previous question) I don't necessarily need to > grab things from the > > internet (though that would be nice) -- I just > want automated > > installation of packages based on the > dependencies of the packages > > I'm requesting. Is that possible? > > > > apt-get itself has has RPM package support added. > New versions of > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From dave at denizin.com Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 2002 From: dave at denizin.com (David W. Jablonski) Date: 13 Feb 2002 23:30:40 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Scroll mouse problems... Message-ID: <1013664645.3928.9.camel@opiate> Hello all, I just got some Belkin Optical Scroll mice and have yet to get them working with the extra buttons (including the scroll wheel). I'm using the imwheel -k options and I changed my /etc/X11/XF86Config to what I think are the right buttons. Running XFree86 4.1 RH 7.1 with a PS/2 mouse. Here's my XF86Config: Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "XFree86 Configured" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/webfonts/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/ttfonts/" FontPath "unix/:7100" EndSection Section "Module" Load "GLcore" Load "dbe" Load "dri" Load "extmod" Load "glx" Load "pex5" Load "record" Load "xie" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "keyboard" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "HWP" ModelName "1921" HorizSync 30.0 - 96.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 120.0 EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Card0" Driver "tdfx" VendorName "3Dfx Interactive" BoardName "Voodoo3" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1280x1024" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "DRI" EndSection I've changed the buttons to 4 and 5 also and still no luck. This mouse has really 7 buttons - Left, Right, Scroll-UP, Scroll-Down, Scroll Click (works), and 2 more side buttons. So right now I have a 3-button mouse with no scroll. Any help would be much appreciated. B.T.W. Here's my imwheelrc file: # IMWheel Configuration file ($HOME/.imwheelrc or /etc/imwheelrc) # (GPL)Jon Atkins # Please read the README and/or imwheel(1) manpage for info # and this is best operated on using vim (as I said: It's crunchy) # # This is only for demonstration of the priority command... # See the other global Exclude command below for the one you want to use! # If this is activated it will only apps that have a lower priority # priority is based first on the priority command, then the position in this # file - the higher the line is in a file the higher in a priority class it is # thus for a default priority you can see that the position in the file is # important, but the priority command CAN appear anywahere in a window's list # of translations, and the priority will be assigned to all translations below # it until either a new window is defined or the priority is set again. # #".*" #@Priority=-1000 #the default priority is zero, higher numbers take precedence #@Exclude #@Repeat #Thanks to Mathias Weyland "^mutt.*" None, Up, Up None, Down, Down Control_L, Up, Page_Up Control_L, Down, Page_Down #Thanks to Mathias Weyland "^aterm" None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down Control_L, Up, Up Control_L, Down, Down #Thanks to Mathias Weyland "^Xplns" None, Up, Left None, Down, Right Control_L, Up, Up Control_L, Down, Down "^kvt" None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^Konsole" None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^XMcd" None, Up, C None, Down, Shift_L|C "^XMMS_Player" None, Up, Right None, Down, Left "^XMMS_Playlist" Control_L, Up, Up Control_L, Down, Down "^xmms" Alt_L, Up, Z Alt_L, Down, B "^XATITV-GATOS" None, Down, KP_Subtract None, Up, KP_Add "^Xman" None, Down, F Shift_L, Down, 3 None, Up, B "^Gvim" Shift_L, Up, Control_L|Y Shift_L, Down, Control_L|E None, Up, Page_Up None, Down, Page_Down "^VIM" Shift_L, Up, Control_L|Y Shift_L, Down, Control_L|E None, Up, Page_Up None, Down, Page_Down "^Eterm" Alt_L, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up Alt_L, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^GnomeTerminal" @Exclude @Repeat None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^NXTerm" None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^rxvt" Alt_L, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up Alt_L, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down "^XTerm" Alt_L, Up, Shift_R|Page_Up Alt_L, Down, Shift_R|Page_Down Alt_L, Left, Control_L|A Alt_L, Right, Control_L|E #Shift_L, Down, Shift_L|1 "^Mozilla.*" # # If you want to scroll by a few lines then uncomment these 4 lines # and comment out the paging 4 lines below these! # #Shift_L, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 #Shift_L, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 #None, Down, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 #None, Up, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 # # If you don't like page scrolling then comment these out and uncomment above! # Shift_L, Down, Down, 7, Shift_L, Up, Up, 7, None, Down, Page_Down, 1, None, Up, Page_Up, 1, # Left/Right & Thumb stuff None, Left, Left, 7, None, Right, Right, 7, None, Thumb, Down, 7, Shift_L, Thumb, Up, 7, "^Netscape" # # If you want to scroll by a few lines then uncomment these 4 lines # and comment out the paging 4 lines below these! # #Shift_L, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 #Shift_L, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 #None, Down, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 #None, Up, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 # # If you don't like page scrolling then comment these out and uncomment above! # Shift_L, Down, Shift_L|Down, 7, 1000, 1000 Shift_L, Up, Shift_L|Up, 7, 1000, 1000 None, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 None, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 # Left/Right & Thumb stuff None, Left, Left, 7, 1000, 1000 None, Right, Right, 7, 1000, 1000 None, Thumb, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 Shift_L, Thumb, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 "^Navigator" #Alt_L, Down, Alt_L|Right #Alt_L, Up, Alt_L|Left Alt_L, Down, Right, 10, 1000, 1000 Alt_L, Up, Left, 10, 1000, 1000 # Thanks to Paul J Collins "^emacs" Shift_L, Up, Page_Up Shift_L, Down, Page_Down # you may need Alt instead of Meta.... None, Down, Control_L|Meta_L|Shift_L|parenright None, Up, Control_L|Meta_L|Shift_L|parenleft # Thanks to etienne grossmann "^Xftp" , Down, j , Up, k # Thanks to etienne grossmann "^gv" None, Up, Shift_L|space None, Down, space "^Event Tester" @Repeat @Exclude "^xv grab" @Priority=1 @Exclude "^XV.*" None, Down, Tab None, Up, Delete "^Untitled" , Up, Page_Up , Down, Page_Down "^No Title" , Up, Page_Up , Down, Page_Down "(null)" , Up, Page_Up , Down, Page_Down # # Uncommment the following to exclude by default. # Then you will have to add new apps all the time, but will retain any built-in # wheel functionality contained in some KDE and other newer programs. # This kinda defeats the original purpose of the program! ;) # #".*" #@Priority=-1000 #@Exclude #@Repeat # # These are the defaults, but note that the defaults for the right side of the # keyboard are still handled within the program, unless you add the # combinations desired here. (except for the None modifier of course!) # If this section is deleted then the hardcoded defaults will be used, which # are the same thing. # Modifying these has global effects, but doesn't override what is above. # ".*" @Priority=-1001 None, Left, Left None, Right, Right None, Up, Page_Up None, Down, Page_Down Shift_L, Left, Left Shift_L, Right, Right Shift_L, Up, Up Shift_L, Down, Down Control_L, Left, Left, 2 Control_L, Right, Right, 2 Control_L, Up, Page_Up, 2 Control_L, Down, Page_Down, 2 Shift_L|Control_L, Left, Left, 5 Shift_L|Control_L, Right, Right, 5 Shift_L|Control_L, Up, Page_Up, 5 Shift_L|Control_L, Down, Page_Down, 5 Alt_L, Left, Left, 10 Alt_L, Right, Right, 10 Alt_L, Up, Left, 10 Alt_L, Down, Right, 10 Shift_L| Alt_L, Left, Left Shift_L| Alt_L, Right, Right Shift_L| Alt_L, Up, Left Shift_L| Alt_L, Down, Right Control_L|Alt_L, Left, Left. 20 Control_L|Alt_L, Right, Right. 20 Control_L|Alt_L, Up, Left. 20 Control_L|Alt_L, Down, Right. 20 Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Left, Left, 50 Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Right, Right, 50 Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Up, Left, 50 Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Down, Right, 50 # vim:ts=4:shiftwidth=4:syntax=sh From will at yogurt66.org Thu Feb 14 01:23:34 2002 From: will at yogurt66.org (Will Burn) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:23:34 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] slack pkg References: Message-ID: <3C6B65F6.8000703@yogurt66.org> > > You bet they're a nightmare. And although tarballs *seem* ok, they > have bad habits of overwriting conf files and leaving stale pieces > around. Maybe things have changed since 7.0, but I doubt it. > I remember wanting to upgrade X from 3 to 4 and found that more or > less you couldn't. So then I looked into upgrading all of slackware, > which ended up being a reinstalation anyway. I am sure slackware > has its uses and follwers, but it certainly wasn't for me. (this > exact issue has kept me from most of the BSD's as well, save OpenBSD > for some servers). > > I think everyone should be forced to try slackware for a while just > to learn the lesson of how linux distributions are not very practical > without some sort of package management [:-)] -Dale > (i hope this is not the beginning of a flame war) > I am using slack 8 on one machine and slack 7.1 on two others. So far the packaging system has worked out great. Its no worse IMO than dependcy errors in RPM's. You find the library you need, you install (compile/install as needed) and then you reapply the package. Not a whole lot different. Other than there are more RPM's than slackpkgs. Slackware has always been a great distro for me, perhaps you should try it again, 8 has made many "friendly" adavances. Just thought I would throw in another perspective. From howland at danenet.wicip.org Thu Feb 14 09:13:37 2002 From: howland at danenet.wicip.org (Eric Howland) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:13:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] rpm query tools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Check out "rpm -q | --query". There are several > > queries you can make such > > as "-a | --all" which shows the name and version of > > all currently > > installed packages, "-i" which shows the full > > package information such as > > the description and "-l | --list" which shows the > > file contents of the > > package. One of the queries that is paticularly relevant to upgrading libraries etc. is rpm -qf file/name/here which tells you the package that installed the file. So if the dependencies fail and you want to upgrade /lib/libuuid.so.1.2 you can type. > rpm -qf /lib/libuuid.so.1.2 e2fsprogs-1.18-16 and then you know that it was the e2fsprogs package that installed the file and you can look for a new version of that package. Of course if the dependencies failed because the library was not installed from an RPM then this will not help. Eric From dave at weccusa.org Thu Feb 14 09:35:54 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 14 Feb 2002 09:35:54 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] rpm query tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013700954.29536.0.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Combined with all the other tools mentioned I basically use www.rpmfind.net. You can type the name of the package or an actual file name and it will return a page with most of the available packages for just about every platform and rpm-based distro. On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 09:13, Eric Howland wrote: > > > > > Check out "rpm -q | --query". There are several > > > queries you can make such > > > as "-a | --all" which shows the name and version of > > > all currently > > > installed packages, "-i" which shows the full > > > package information such as > > > the description and "-l | --list" which shows the > > > file contents of the > > > package. > > One of the queries that is paticularly relevant to upgrading > libraries etc. is rpm -qf file/name/here which tells you the package > that installed the file. > > So if the dependencies fail and you want to upgrade /lib/libuuid.so.1.2 > you can type. > > > rpm -qf /lib/libuuid.so.1.2 > e2fsprogs-1.18-16 > > and then you know that it was the e2fsprogs package that installed the > file and you can look for a new version of that package. Of course if the > dependencies failed because the library was not installed from an RPM then > this will not help. > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From jiml at slh.wisc.edu Thu Feb 14 12:17:28 2002 From: jiml at slh.wisc.edu (James E. Leinweber) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:17:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] [ANN] Executrain "Linux into the Enterprise" dog&pony show Sat 2/16 Message-ID: <200202141817.MAA11747@slh.wisc.edu> The following presentation might be of interest to some of this audience. (Forwarded by Jim Leinweber, after some reformatting ...) What: "Introducing Linux into the Enterprise" Jeff Kwiatkowski, Linux Evangelist/Realist (A FREE Linux Seminar, courtesy of ExecuTrain of Wisconsin) When & Where: Date: Saturday, February 16th, 2002 Time: 9:00 - 12:00 2418 Crossroads Drive Suite 1900 Madison, WI 53718 Register with: Contact: Beth Parisi Phone: 608-243-5225 Fax: 608-243-5221 Email: bethp at madison.executrain.com Agenda: * A short history of GNU, Linux and the GPL * "the Cathedral versus the Bazaar" * TCO, Microsoft and Linux * Money savings, True or False * Server and Desktop Linux into the enterprise * Interconnectivity with other enterprise OS's * Advances in administration, configuration and updates * Alternative applications available to my company * It's in, next steps Obligatory pre-meeting hype: Amazon reduced technical expenses 25% by moving to Linux Servers, from $71 million/ year to $54 million/ year" ..CNET "Due to security concerns, IIS customers should explore migrating to alternative web servers" ..Gartner Group "Apache Servers hold 57% to 32% lead over IIS in web sites on the Internet" NetCraft Survey From ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu Thu Feb 14 15:16:32 2002 From: ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu (Aaron Schumacher) Date: 14 Feb 2002 15:16:32 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Scroll mouse problems... In-Reply-To: <1013664645.3928.9.camel@opiate> References: <1013664645.3928.9.camel@opiate> Message-ID: <1013721393.1306.22.camel@wushu> Well, I'm no expert, but my mouse does work (Logitech Optical, two buttons + wheelButton (wheel is also clickable button) usb converted to ps2 plug)... here's the relevant bits of my XF86Config; you may want to tweak around and see if this makes a difference. I don't know what it cares about or doesn't, and it looks like you may have more buttons than me. Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "imps/2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" EndSection Note that using imwheel shouldn't be neccessary with recent versions of X (like 4.1) configured properly, I think... I don't use it, anyway. - Aaron On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 23:30, David W. Jablonski wrote: > Hello all, > I just got some Belkin Optical Scroll mice and have yet to get them > working with the extra buttons (including the scroll wheel). I'm using > the imwheel -k options and I changed my /etc/X11/XF86Config to what I > think are the right buttons. Running XFree86 4.1 RH 7.1 with a PS/2 > mouse. Here's my XF86Config: > > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "XFree86 Configured" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > EndSection > > Section "Files" > RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" > ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/webfonts/" > FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/ttfonts/" > FontPath "unix/:7100" > EndSection > > Section "Module" > Load "GLcore" > Load "dbe" > Load "dri" > Load "extmod" > Load "glx" > Load "pex5" > Load "record" > Load "xie" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Keyboard0" > Driver "keyboard" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Monitor0" > VendorName "HWP" > ModelName "1921" > HorizSync 30.0 - 96.0 > VertRefresh 50.0 - 120.0 > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Card0" > Driver "tdfx" > VendorName "3Dfx Interactive" > BoardName "Voodoo3" > BusID "PCI:1:0:0" > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Card0" > Monitor "Monitor0" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Depth 1 > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 4 > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 8 > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 15 > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 16 > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > Modes "1280x1024" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > > Section "DRI" > EndSection > > > I've changed the buttons to 4 and 5 also and still no luck. This mouse > has really 7 buttons - Left, Right, Scroll-UP, Scroll-Down, Scroll Click > (works), and 2 more side buttons. So right now I have a 3-button mouse > with no scroll. Any help would be much appreciated. B.T.W. Here's my > imwheelrc file: > > # IMWheel Configuration file ($HOME/.imwheelrc or /etc/imwheelrc) > # (GPL)Jon Atkins > # Please read the README and/or imwheel(1) manpage for info > # and this is best operated on using vim (as I said: It's crunchy) > > # > # This is only for demonstration of the priority command... > # See the other global Exclude command below for the one you want to use! > # If this is activated it will only apps that have a lower priority > # priority is based first on the priority command, then the position in this > # file - the higher the line is in a file the higher in a priority class it is > # thus for a default priority you can see that the position in the file is > # important, but the priority command CAN appear anywahere in a window's list > # of translations, and the priority will be assigned to all translations below > # it until either a new window is defined or the priority is set again. > # > #".*" > #@Priority=-1000 #the default priority is zero, higher numbers take precedence > #@Exclude > #@Repeat > > #Thanks to Mathias Weyland > "^mutt.*" > None, Up, Up > None, Down, Down > Control_L, Up, Page_Up > Control_L, Down, Page_Down > > #Thanks to Mathias Weyland > "^aterm" > None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > Control_L, Up, Up > Control_L, Down, Down > > #Thanks to Mathias Weyland > "^Xplns" > None, Up, Left > None, Down, Right > Control_L, Up, Up > Control_L, Down, Down > > "^kvt" > None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^Konsole" > None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^XMcd" > None, Up, C > None, Down, Shift_L|C > > "^XMMS_Player" > None, Up, Right > None, Down, Left > > "^XMMS_Playlist" > Control_L, Up, Up > Control_L, Down, Down > > "^xmms" > Alt_L, Up, Z > Alt_L, Down, B > > "^XATITV-GATOS" > None, Down, KP_Subtract > None, Up, KP_Add > > "^Xman" > None, Down, F > Shift_L, Down, 3 > None, Up, B > > "^Gvim" > Shift_L, Up, Control_L|Y > Shift_L, Down, Control_L|E > None, Up, Page_Up > None, Down, Page_Down > > "^VIM" > Shift_L, Up, Control_L|Y > Shift_L, Down, Control_L|E > None, Up, Page_Up > None, Down, Page_Down > > "^Eterm" > Alt_L, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > Alt_L, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^GnomeTerminal" > @Exclude > @Repeat > None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^NXTerm" > None, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > None, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^rxvt" > Alt_L, Up, Shift_L|Page_Up > Alt_L, Down, Shift_L|Page_Down > > "^XTerm" > Alt_L, Up, Shift_R|Page_Up > Alt_L, Down, Shift_R|Page_Down > Alt_L, Left, Control_L|A > Alt_L, Right, Control_L|E > #Shift_L, Down, Shift_L|1 > > "^Mozilla.*" > # > # If you want to scroll by a few lines then uncomment these 4 lines > # and comment out the paging 4 lines below these! > # > #Shift_L, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 > #Shift_L, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 > #None, Down, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 > #None, Up, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 > # > # If you don't like page scrolling then comment these out and uncomment above! > # > Shift_L, Down, Down, 7, > Shift_L, Up, Up, 7, > None, Down, Page_Down, 1, > None, Up, Page_Up, 1, > # Left/Right & Thumb stuff > None, Left, Left, 7, > None, Right, Right, 7, > None, Thumb, Down, 7, > Shift_L, Thumb, Up, 7, > > "^Netscape" > # > # If you want to scroll by a few lines then uncomment these 4 lines > # and comment out the paging 4 lines below these! > # > #Shift_L, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 > #Shift_L, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 > #None, Down, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 > #None, Up, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 > # > # If you don't like page scrolling then comment these out and uncomment above! > # > Shift_L, Down, Shift_L|Down, 7, 1000, 1000 > Shift_L, Up, Shift_L|Up, 7, 1000, 1000 > None, Down, Page_Down, 1, 1000, 1000 > None, Up, Page_Up, 1, 1000, 1000 > # Left/Right & Thumb stuff > None, Left, Left, 7, 1000, 1000 > None, Right, Right, 7, 1000, 1000 > None, Thumb, Down, 7, 1000, 1000 > Shift_L, Thumb, Up, 7, 1000, 1000 > > "^Navigator" > #Alt_L, Down, Alt_L|Right > #Alt_L, Up, Alt_L|Left > Alt_L, Down, Right, 10, 1000, 1000 > Alt_L, Up, Left, 10, 1000, 1000 > > # Thanks to Paul J Collins > "^emacs" > Shift_L, Up, Page_Up > Shift_L, Down, Page_Down > # you may need Alt instead of Meta.... > None, Down, Control_L|Meta_L|Shift_L|parenright > None, Up, Control_L|Meta_L|Shift_L|parenleft > > # Thanks to etienne grossmann > "^Xftp" > , Down, j > , Up, k > > # Thanks to etienne grossmann > "^gv" > None, Up, Shift_L|space > None, Down, space > > "^Event Tester" > @Repeat > @Exclude > > "^xv grab" > @Priority=1 > @Exclude > > "^XV.*" > None, Down, Tab > None, Up, Delete > > "^Untitled" > , Up, Page_Up > , Down, Page_Down > > "^No Title" > , Up, Page_Up > , Down, Page_Down > > "(null)" > , Up, Page_Up > , Down, Page_Down > > # > # Uncommment the following to exclude by default. > # Then you will have to add new apps all the time, but will retain any built-in > # wheel functionality contained in some KDE and other newer programs. > # This kinda defeats the original purpose of the program! ;) > # > #".*" > #@Priority=-1000 > #@Exclude > #@Repeat > > # > # These are the defaults, but note that the defaults for the right side of the > # keyboard are still handled within the program, unless you add the > # combinations desired here. (except for the None modifier of course!) > # If this section is deleted then the hardcoded defaults will be used, which > # are the same thing. > # Modifying these has global effects, but doesn't override what is above. > # > ".*" > @Priority=-1001 > None, Left, Left > None, Right, Right > None, Up, Page_Up > None, Down, Page_Down > Shift_L, Left, Left > Shift_L, Right, Right > Shift_L, Up, Up > Shift_L, Down, Down > Control_L, Left, Left, 2 > Control_L, Right, Right, 2 > Control_L, Up, Page_Up, 2 > Control_L, Down, Page_Down, 2 > Shift_L|Control_L, Left, Left, 5 > Shift_L|Control_L, Right, Right, 5 > Shift_L|Control_L, Up, Page_Up, 5 > Shift_L|Control_L, Down, Page_Down, 5 > Alt_L, Left, Left, 10 > Alt_L, Right, Right, 10 > Alt_L, Up, Left, 10 > Alt_L, Down, Right, 10 > Shift_L| Alt_L, Left, Left > Shift_L| Alt_L, Right, Right > Shift_L| Alt_L, Up, Left > Shift_L| Alt_L, Down, Right > Control_L|Alt_L, Left, Left. 20 > Control_L|Alt_L, Right, Right. 20 > Control_L|Alt_L, Up, Left. 20 > Control_L|Alt_L, Down, Right. 20 > Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Left, Left, 50 > Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Right, Right, 50 > Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Up, Left, 50 > Shift_L|Control_L|Alt_L, Down, Right, 50 > > # vim:ts=4:shiftwidth=4:syntax=sh > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From tinberg at securepipe.com Thu Feb 14 19:15:05 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:15:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] clone system call In-Reply-To: <1013644985.1827.50.camel@coolest> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13 Feb 2002, Ho-Seop Kim wrote: > AFAIK, the pthread library (LinuxThreads) that comes with glibc is > built on clone system call. This clone system call is unique to Linux. > It seems to me that clone has nothing to do with kernel_thread. Please > correct me if I'm wrong. > > My question is, why do they chose to implement LWP this way? (For > example, Solaris LWP is built on kernel threads) Caveat, I am not a systems developer. My understanding is that you are talking about a few, seperate things. 1) kernel_threads. I believe that this refers to actual kernel mode processes, like kswapd, kjournald, keventd, etc. These are part of the kernel, but are implemented similar to user-space processes. This has nothing to do with application threading, or pthreads. 2) Linux LWP (LightWeight Processes). There are two different threading libraries available, pthreads and something else that I can't remember at this time. Linux LWP as implemented by pthreads are just clone()s of the origional process that share the same memory map. There is no explicit "thread" process type in the Linux kernel. The kernel just sees them as annother process (with its own PID, etc) that happens to share the same memory space as its parent, but has a different instruction pointer. Linux threads are scheduled just the same as any other process on the machine. This is possible because the process creation and scheduling cost in the Linux kernel is approximately equivilent with the cost of creating threads in other OS's like Solaris and WinNT. There seems to be no benefit for having a seperate system for handling threads under Linux. 3) There is a user-space thread library as well, that gives you "threads" that are completely self-contained in an individual process. When the application get scheduled in and runs, the application manages its own internal "thread" abstraction and then runs the appropriate thread. This has different performance charactaristics than #2 as the kernel scheduler only sees one process no matter how many threads may be internal to that process, avoiding any performance problems that occur when there are thousands of processes to schedule. The problem is that since all threads are subordinate to one Unix process, either all threads get scheduled in to run, or none of them do, the Linux scheduler cannot know which internal thread to run. I'm pretty sure that I've gotten this wrong at some point, I would appreciate it if someone could correct me where I have erred. TIA - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxsYRoACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fdf2ACglM1g5XxlGjZfOy9CG09OPEAE koYAoL9zsbtrCCAokd9qufCuIX0dXwt+ =10mO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tinberg at securepipe.com Thu Feb 14 21:26:19 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:26:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Scroll mouse problems... In-Reply-To: <1013664645.3928.9.camel@opiate> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13 Feb 2002, David W. Jablonski wrote: > Hello all, > I just got some Belkin Optical Scroll mice and have yet to get them > working with the extra buttons (including the scroll wheel). I'm using > the imwheel -k options and I changed my /etc/X11/XF86Config to what I > think are the right buttons. Running XFree86 4.1 RH 7.1 with a PS/2 > mouse. Here's my XF86Config: > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7" > EndSection I have the exact same mouse, but I have it plugged into the USB port. I don't believe that you need imwheel to get it working, that was only for old XFree86 3.x servers that didn't have any integrated wheel mouse support. Newer 3.x X servers and all 4.x servers have built in support, and most user applications support the wheel directly, without requiring hacks like imwheel, which IIRC just grabs the wheel and sends fake keystrokes to the application. More information on setting up a USB mouse (HID device). http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html /sbin/lsmod - ---------------------------------------- [..snip..] mousedev 5040 1 usbmouse 2320 0 (unused) input 4320 0 [hid mousedev usbmouse] usb-ohci 22544 0 (unused) usbcore 58048 1 [hid usb-storage usbmouse usb-ohci] [..snip..] Here is the appropriate section from my X configuration. /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 - ---------------------------------------- Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection - -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . When you die, you lose a very important part of your life. -- Brooke Shields -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iEYEARECAAYFAjxsf9wACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fd0fgCaAmpBliMjshprvueKbOG9RUtZ M7kAniw8MNOfjJ+d4fK+ivDZ3nmyJWtd =r0bS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From will at yogurt66.org Fri Feb 15 13:20:52 2002 From: will at yogurt66.org (Will Burn) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:20:52 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] [ANN] Executrain "Linux into the Enterprise" dog&pony show Sat 2/16 Message-ID: <001201c1b655$e4760620$0200a8c0@com> For anyone who was interested in this, I would like to say. Jeff was my boss for about a year, and he is a great guy with some good visions for linux. Not to mention, some good expierence with linux in the enterprise enviroment. I recommend hearing what he has to say. Will What: "Introducing Linux into the Enterprise" Jeff Kwiatkowski, Linux Evangelist/Realist (A FREE Linux Seminar, courtesy of ExecuTrain of Wisconsin) When & Where: Date: Saturday, February 16th, 2002 Time: 9:00 - 12:00 2418 Crossroads Drive Suite 1900 Madison, WI 53718 Register with: Contact: Beth Parisi Phone: 608-243-5225 Fax: 608-243-5221 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020215/05328b4c/attachment.htm From shoemakerted at yahoo.com Sat Feb 16 11:01:35 2002 From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:01:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <20020216170135.1075.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> This was on the mail of another LUG I belong to, with permission to modify & resend to other elected officials. I believe it was originally taken from desktoplinux.org. ------------- Governor Warner, As a citizen and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I am deeply concerned about the current budgetary crisis. When there's a shortfall, conventional wisdom holds that we either need to raise taxes or cut programs. However, there's a third alternative that you may not be aware of: free software. Like any modern organization, the Virginia government relies on computer technology to function. Proprietary software licenses from companies like Microsoft, Oracle, etc., are a significant expenditure, and will only get worse. However, we can replace all this proprietary software with free software that runs on the GNU/Linux platform. That's right, free. For each piece of proprietary software, there are multiple free software alternatives. Linux has long been known as a robust server operating system. However, its desktop features have come of age; and Linux can be as user-friendly as Microsoft Windows or Macintosh interfaces. Here is a brief list of Linux alternatives to proprietary software components, both for back-end servers and end-user desktops: Operating systems: replace Windows 9x/2000/me/xp with Suse Linux, Redhat Linux, etc., using the KDE or Gnome desktops. Office suites: replace Microsoft Office with OpenOffice, StarOffice, AbiWord, gnumeric, evolution, etc. Web servers: replace Windows NT and IIS with Linux, Apache, Tomcat. Application servers: replace IBM Websphere with Jboss; replace ColdFusion with Zope, php, etc. Database servers: replace Oracle, Db2, Sybase or Sql Server with Postgresql, Firebird, MySql, etc. This list is just a starting point. There is a vast wealth of untapped software resources, which are free -- not only this year, but in perpetuity. Not only does free Linux software save money on software licenses, but it also saves money in hardware (since Linux also runs on "obsolete" low-power workstations) and administrative costs (since Linux is more stable and robust than any flavor of Microsoft Windows, and has built-in remote administrative features). The lower cost can be especially beneficial in computerizing our schools -- imagine redirecting all those discarded computers into classrooms; this puts the dream of putting a computer on every student's desktop within reach. Pie in the sky? Not at all! The city of Largo, Florida has already made the switch (http://www.consultingtimes.com/Largo.html); the national governments of Germany and South Africa are also embarking on migrations to free software and linux. So before you choose to raise taxes or cut programs, why not give the citizens of Virginia a gift that keeps on giving? Take the leadership on this issue. Freedom is a core value in Virginia. Let's liberate our state computers -- and our tax dollars -- with free Linux software. Sincerely, ******************** Sr. Systems Engineer and Concerned Citizen ------------------- ===== Ted Shoemaker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From dave at weccusa.org Sat Feb 16 11:00:33 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 16 Feb 2002 11:00:33 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Scroll mouse problems... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013878833.1466.1.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Thanks to Aaron and Mark for your answers. I'm dumping imwheel since I guess I don't need it. I'll try using the USB port. I'd actually like to get the PS2 part working but I guess if I have to buy a USB card for my work machine I'll live. Thanks.... On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 21:26, Mark Tinberg wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 13 Feb 2002, David W. Jablonski wrote: > > > Hello all, > > I just got some Belkin Optical Scroll mice and have yet to get them > > working with the extra buttons (including the scroll wheel). I'm using > > the imwheel -k options and I changed my /etc/X11/XF86Config to what I > > think are the right buttons. Running XFree86 4.1 RH 7.1 with a PS/2 > > mouse. Here's my XF86Config: > > Section "InputDevice" > > Identifier "Mouse0" > > Driver "mouse" > > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7" > > EndSection > > I have the exact same mouse, but I have it plugged into the USB port. I > don't believe that you need imwheel to get it working, that was only for > old XFree86 3.x servers that didn't have any integrated wheel mouse > support. Newer 3.x X servers and all 4.x servers have built in support, > and most user applications support the wheel directly, without requiring > hacks like imwheel, which IIRC just grabs the wheel and sends fake > keystrokes to the application. > > More information on setting up a USB mouse (HID device). > http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html > > /sbin/lsmod > - ---------------------------------------- > [..snip..] > mousedev 5040 1 > usbmouse 2320 0 (unused) > input 4320 0 [hid mousedev usbmouse] > usb-ohci 22544 0 (unused) > usbcore 58048 1 [hid usb-storage usbmouse usb-ohci] > [..snip..] > > Here is the appropriate section from my X configuration. > > /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > - ---------------------------------------- > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Mouse" > Driver "mouse" > Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > > - -- > Mark Tinberg > Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. > Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! > Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 > > Your daily fortune . . . > > When you die, you lose a very important part of your life. > -- Brooke Shields > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAjxsf9wACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fd0fgCaAmpBliMjshprvueKbOG9RUtZ > M7kAniw8MNOfjJ+d4fK+ivDZ3nmyJWtd > =r0bS > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From dave at weccusa.org Sat Feb 16 11:07:39 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 16 Feb 2002 11:07:39 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) In-Reply-To: <20020216170135.1075.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020216170135.1075.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1013879259.1466.3.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> There was also a discussion on the alt2600wi list about talking to Dane County about Open Source solutions. I think this is a great idea since the governmental shortfall is impacting more than just government institutions. WE are the people and as those people we should have a right for our government to consider smart cheaper solutions. I think it may have to start at the smaller levels like town boards or county boards. Replace an IIS Virus Server with Apache here and there. I'm willing to work with anyone that knows how to start contacting people or is good at writing letters. Let me know and I'll give some time to the cause. Plus if the govt. starts adopting Open Source software then bills like the SSSCA will fall flat on their face. This is a good time to get involved. On Sat, 2002-02-16 at 11:01, Ted and Robin Shoemaker wrote: > > This was on the mail of another LUG I belong to, with permission > to modify & resend to other elected officials. I believe > it was originally taken from desktoplinux.org. > > > ------------- > > Governor Warner, > > As a citizen and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I > am deeply concerned about the current budgetary crisis. When > there's a shortfall, conventional wisdom holds that we either > need to raise taxes or cut programs. However, there's a third > alternative that you may not be aware of: free software. > > Like any modern organization, the Virginia government relies > on computer technology to function. Proprietary software > licenses from companies like Microsoft, Oracle, etc., are a > significant expenditure, and will only get worse. However, we > can replace all this proprietary software with free software > that runs on the GNU/Linux platform. That's right, free. For > each piece of proprietary software, there are multiple free > software alternatives. > > Linux has long been known as a robust server operating system. > However, its desktop features have come of age; and Linux can > be as user-friendly as Microsoft Windows or Macintosh interfaces. > > Here is a brief list of Linux alternatives to proprietary > software components, both for back-end servers and end-user > desktops: > > Operating systems: > replace Windows 9x/2000/me/xp with Suse Linux, Redhat Linux, > etc., using the KDE or Gnome desktops. > > Office suites: > replace Microsoft Office with OpenOffice, StarOffice, AbiWord, > gnumeric, evolution, etc. > > Web servers: > replace Windows NT and IIS with Linux, Apache, Tomcat. > > Application servers: > replace IBM Websphere with Jboss; replace ColdFusion with > Zope, php, etc. > > Database servers: > replace Oracle, Db2, Sybase or Sql Server with Postgresql, > Firebird, MySql, etc. > > This list is just a starting point. There is a vast wealth of > untapped software resources, which are free -- not only this > year, but in perpetuity. > > Not only does free Linux software save money on software > licenses, but it also saves money in hardware (since Linux > also runs on "obsolete" low-power workstations) and > administrative costs (since Linux is more stable and robust > than any flavor of Microsoft Windows, and has built-in > remote administrative features). The lower cost can be > especially beneficial in computerizing our schools -- imagine > redirecting all those discarded computers into classrooms; > this puts the dream of putting a computer on every student's > desktop within reach. > > Pie in the sky? Not at all! The city of Largo, Florida has > already made the switch > (http://www.consultingtimes.com/Largo.html); the national > governments of Germany and South Africa are also embarking > on migrations to free software and linux. > > So before you choose to raise taxes or cut programs, why not > give the citizens of Virginia a gift that keeps on giving? > Take the leadership on this issue. Freedom is a core value > in Virginia. Let's liberate our state computers -- and our > tax dollars -- with free Linux software. > > Sincerely, > > ******************** > Sr. Systems Engineer and Concerned Citizen > > ------------------- > > > ===== > Ted Shoemaker > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE > PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From harv at tds.net Sat Feb 16 11:06:44 2002 From: harv at tds.net (Harv Nelson) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:06:44 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) References: <20020216170135.1075.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C6E91A3.9D38DA60@tds.net> It'd be interesting to know just how many of those taxpayer dollars ... state, county, city, etc ... get piped off to M$ every year. Anyone know if that info was included in the recent lawsuit? (or where it might be found ... I doubt it shows up as a single budget line item) Might give "Scotty" and idea of how/where he could "beam-up" some loot. Harv =================== "Horse sense is what keeps horses from betting on what people will do." Author Unknown http://kg9ga.shacknet.nu http://mcbird.ath.cx Ted and Robin Shoemaker wrote: > This was on the mail of another LUG I belong to, with permission > to modify & resend to other elected officials. I believe > it was originally taken from desktoplinux.org. > > > ------------- > > Governor Warner, > > As a citizen and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I > am deeply concerned about the current budgetary crisis. When > there's a shortfall, conventional wisdom holds that we either > need to raise taxes or cut programs. However, there's a third > alternative that you may not be aware of: free software. > snipped -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020216/7bbbc2d6/attachment.htm From jmjaco at charter.net Sat Feb 16 13:49:13 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:49:13 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) In-Reply-To: <1013879259.1466.3.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> References: <20020216170135.1075.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> <1013879259.1466.3.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Message-ID: <20020216194913.GA9429@strider> On 02/16/02, David W. Jablonski wrote: > I think it may have to start at the smaller levels like town boards or > county boards. Replace an IIS Virus Server with Apache here and there. > I'm willing to work with anyone that knows how to start contacting > people or is good at writing letters. Let me know and I'll give some > time to the cause. Someone called into the new program on WIBA AM a few days ago when someone from Dane County government was talking about budget woes, and said that they should switch to Free Software to save a bundle. The guy had never heard of the possibility and was very interested. There is a lot of potential here, probably more than we can appreciate. Jesse -- For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. http://www.grace-els.org From pali at charter.net Sat Feb 16 14:24:20 2002 From: pali at charter.net (pali) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:24:20 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] [ANN] Executrain "Linux into the Enterprise" dog&pony show Sat 2/16 In-Reply-To: <001201c1b655$e4760620$0200a8c0@com> Message-ID: <000201c1b727$ea66d5a0$e65ebc42@mdsn1.wi.home.com> I attended this meeting and it was interesting. I felt it was obvious that there is not a blanket right or wrong answer. Each situation is different. Thank you for passing this meeting notice on to me. I know that I do not have the experience that most of you have. With this in mind if anyone ever sees a note for an into to Linux meeting or web site that gives a new user some good examples I would appreciate you passing them on. Mike Daugird pali at charter.net thank you for your time and have a good day -----Original Message----- From: madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org [mailto:madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org]On Behalf Of Will Burn Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:21 PM To: madlug at madisonlinux.org Subject: [Madlug] [ANN] Executrain "Linux into the Enterprise" dog&pony show Sat 2/16 For anyone who was interested in this, I would like to say. Jeff was my boss for about a year, and he is a great guy with some good visions for linux. Not to mention, some good expierence with linux in the enterprise enviroment. I recommend hearing what he has to say. Will What: "Introducing Linux into the Enterprise" Jeff Kwiatkowski, Linux Evangelist/Realist (A FREE Linux Seminar, courtesy of ExecuTrain of Wisconsin) When & Where: Date: Saturday, February 16th, 2002 Time: 9:00 - 12:00 2418 Crossroads Drive Suite 1900 Madison, WI 53718 Register with: Contact: Beth Parisi Phone: 608-243-5225 Fax: 608-243-5221 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020216/fa125595/attachment.htm From pali at charter.net Sat Feb 16 14:44:48 2002 From: pali at charter.net (pali) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:44:48 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] hardware support Message-ID: <000901c1b72a$c61970b0$e65ebc42@mdsn1.wi.home.com> I get overwhelmed looking at redhat's site. Where can I look to see if a specific disto will have hardware support for specific hardware for a computer I am building. ECS K7S5A - SIS 735 chipset mainboard ATI Xpert2000 vid card. the video and network are part of the mainboard. also, any info if the ATI all-in-wonder 7500 or 8500 cards have any support? thank you for your time and have a good day From johnl at cs.wisc.edu Sat Feb 16 17:25:31 2002 From: johnl at cs.wisc.edu (J David Lee) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:25:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] WindowMaker Message-ID: I just installed WindowMaker 0.80 on my computer and it seems to have a problem. xosview shows the CUP at 100% constantly, and top shows that wmaker is using between 97-100% all the time. It doesn't seem to slow things down, though, but it is a bit disconcerting. If anyone knows what's up with this, I'd like to know. Thanks, -- J. David Lee johnl at cs.wisc.edu 720 E Gorham St #101 Madison, WI 53703 From rferguson at voyager.net Sun Feb 17 05:44:08 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (Ray Ferguson) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 05:44:08 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Made another nifty script. Message-ID: <200202171149.g1HBn7L04758@berbee.com> This one I kinda like, and I have a feeling many of you have made your own versions of this script through the years. It's basically for cleaning up messes made by uninitiated Windoze users who make ugly filenames with yucky charactors. After doing this, I began wondering how some of you would tackle the same problem? -ray. BTW, I was thinking adding a -R flag for Recursive changes would be nice, but havn't gotten that far yet. #!/bin/bash # # This nifty home grown routine removes spaces from all files and subdirectries # in the present directory and replaces them with underscores, and removes # the folowing charictors from the filenames. # : ( ) , % & # { ls -1 |awk -F : '{ print "file=\""$1"\"; mv \""$file"\" \$( echo $file | tr \" \" _ | tr -d \\(\\)\\,\\:\\%\\& )" }'| bash } > /dev/null 2>&1 From dave at denizin.com Sun Feb 17 10:54:33 2002 From: dave at denizin.com (David W. Jablonski) Date: 17 Feb 2002 10:54:33 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Scroll mouse problems... In-Reply-To: <200202162325.g1GNPE571144@mail2.mx.voyager.net> References: <1013878833.1466.1.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> <200202162325.g1GNPE571144@mail2.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <1013964898.2719.7.camel@opiate> Well thanks everyone for your suggestions. I actually got it working but I'm not sure how. I did change the buttons back to 4 5 and it works but that is where I started and it didn't. The only thing I can think is that I re-ran the RH setup tool and re-chose my mouse. It then blew up my XF86Config file so I had to manually hack it and I changed the buttons back to 4 5. After that restarted X and woila. From all the RH and other XFree tools creaming my XF86Config file I think from now on I edit it myself. One tools looks for that file configured one way while others want it another format but I haven't totally researched what the differences are. Oh well I guess one of these days I'll actually read all the X docs and figure out what I'm doing. Thanks again... P.S. I got the PS2 part working :-). On Sat, 2002-02-16 at 16:20, raymond wrote: > Before you bite the bullet on this. Try changing your ZAxisMapping to "4 5." > Everyone elses was at "4 5" and yours was "6 7". If you have a bunch of > extra buttons you can try tinkering with this. Iv'e seen values of "4 5 6 7" > and "4 5 4 5" on an old IBM scrollpoint mouse (used a button like on the > center of a lap top in place of the mouse wheel.) Anyway... I'd give that a > shot first. > > -ray. > > On Saturday 16 February 2002 12:00 pm, you wrote: > > Thanks to Aaron and Mark for your answers. I'm dumping imwheel since I > > guess I don't need it. I'll try using the USB port. I'd actually like > > to get the PS2 part working but I guess if I have to buy a USB card for > > my work machine I'll live. Thanks.... > > > > On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 21:26, Mark Tinberg wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > On 13 Feb 2002, David W. Jablonski wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > I just got some Belkin Optical Scroll mice and have yet to get them > > > > working with the extra buttons (including the scroll wheel). I'm using > > > > the imwheel -k options and I changed my /etc/X11/XF86Config to what I > > > > think are the right buttons. Running XFree86 4.1 RH 7.1 with a PS/2 > > > > mouse. Here's my XF86Config: > > > > Section "InputDevice" > > > > Identifier "Mouse0" > > > > Driver "mouse" > > > > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > > > > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > > > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7" > > > > EndSection > > > > > > I have the exact same mouse, but I have it plugged into the USB port. I > > > don't believe that you need imwheel to get it working, that was only for > > > old XFree86 3.x servers that didn't have any integrated wheel mouse > > > support. Newer 3.x X servers and all 4.x servers have built in support, > > > and most user applications support the wheel directly, without requiring > > > hacks like imwheel, which IIRC just grabs the wheel and sends fake > > > keystrokes to the application. > > > > > > More information on setting up a USB mouse (HID device). > > > http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html > > > > > > /sbin/lsmod > > > - ---------------------------------------- > > > [..snip..] > > > mousedev 5040 1 > > > usbmouse 2320 0 (unused) > > > input 4320 0 [hid mousedev usbmouse] > > > usb-ohci 22544 0 (unused) > > > usbcore 58048 1 [hid usb-storage usbmouse usb-ohci] > > > [..snip..] > > > > > > Here is the appropriate section from my X configuration. > > > > > > /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > > > - ---------------------------------------- > > > Section "InputDevice" > > > Identifier "Generic Mouse" > > > Driver "mouse" > > > Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" > > > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > > > Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" > > > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" > > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > > > EndSection > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > Mark Tinberg > > > Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. > > > Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! > > > Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 > > > > > > Your daily fortune . . . > > > > > > When you die, you lose a very important part of your life. > > > -- Brooke Shields > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ > > > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAjxsf9wACgkQz1Jf4HRw5fd0fgCaAmpBliMjshprvueKbOG9RUtZ > > > M7kAniw8MNOfjJ+d4fK+ivDZ3nmyJWtd > > > =r0bS > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From johnl at cs.wisc.edu Sun Feb 17 13:48:33 2002 From: johnl at cs.wisc.edu (J David Lee) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:48:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] WindowMaker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK figured it out - there was actually an instance of windowmaker running that had crashed before and hadn't stopped. I like windowMaker pretty well, but it's not the most stable desktop by any means. On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, J David Lee wrote: > I just installed WindowMaker 0.80 on my computer and it seems to have a > problem. xosview shows the CUP at 100% constantly, and top shows that > wmaker is using between 97-100% all the time. It doesn't seem to slow > things down, though, but it is a bit disconcerting. If anyone knows what's > up with this, I'd like to know. > > Thanks, > > -- J. David Lee johnl at cs.wisc.edu 720 E Gorham St #101 Madison, WI 53703 From shoemakerted at yahoo.com Sun Feb 17 17:05:56 2002 From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:05:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Re: Made another nifty script. Message-ID: <20020217230556.16073.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Good idea. How do you protect against creating duplicate filenames? In Windows, there is a difference between the names "john&marsha.jpg" and "johnmarsha.jpg"; similarly there is a difference between "my_letters.txt" and "my letters.txt". If some user had *all* the filenames listed above, he/she might have problems with your script. Ted Shoemaker --- Ray Ferguson wrote: > #!/bin/bash > # > # This nifty home grown routine removes spaces from all files and > subdirectries > # in the present directory and replaces them with underscores, and > removes > # the folowing charictors from the filenames. > # : ( ) , % & > # ===== Ted Shoemaker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From rferguson at voyager.net Sun Feb 17 16:34:16 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:34:16 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Made another nifty script. In-Reply-To: <20020217230556.16073.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020217230556.16073.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200202172336.g1HNaUv89174@mail1.mx.voyager.net> I don't : ). Luckly the data I did this to wasn't all that important. Just some multimedia that I got in mass from a friend. I'm not even sure all of whats in it. Hey, how important can a file made on a wintel box be anyway? I added a little bit to the script too. I added ' ~ to the list of charictors removed. The ony tricky one was '. I had trouble making that inside the '{ }' braces need by awk many times. I figured out that you can use the hex preceded by \x. So ' is \x27. On Sunday 17 February 2002 06:05 pm, Ted and Robin Shoemaker wrote: > Good idea. How do you protect against creating duplicate filenames? > In Windows, there is a difference between the names > "john&marsha.jpg" and "johnmarsha.jpg"; > similarly there is a difference between > "my_letters.txt" and "my letters.txt". > If some user had *all* the filenames listed above, > he/she might have problems with your script. > > Ted Shoemaker > > --- Ray Ferguson wrote: > > #!/bin/bash > > # > > # This nifty home grown routine removes spaces from all files and > > subdirectries > > # in the present directory and replaces them with underscores, and > > removes > > # the folowing charictors from the filenames. > > # : ( ) , % & > > # > > ===== > Ted Shoemaker > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE > PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com From chris at clotho.com Mon Feb 18 09:02:52 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:02:52 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Made another nifty script. References: <200202171149.g1HBn7L04758@berbee.com> Message-ID: <3C71179C.3080408@clotho.com> I'll bite. :-) find . | perl -ne 'chop; $old=$_; tr/ :\(\),%&]/_/d; rename($old,$_) if ($old ne $_)' (pardon the wrapped line. I couldn't get it shorter than 72 chars) This fails silently if the destination filename is already taken. Add "warn "$old -> $_: $!\n" to the end to see errors. Chris Ray Ferguson wrote: > This one I kinda like, and I have a feeling many of you have made your > own versions of this script through the years. It's basically for cleaning > up messes made by uninitiated Windoze users who make ugly filenames > with yucky charactors. After doing this, I began wondering how some > of you would tackle the same problem? > > -ray. > > BTW, I was thinking adding a -R flag for Recursive changes would be > nice, but havn't gotten that far yet. > > #!/bin/bash > # > # This nifty home grown routine removes spaces from all files and subdirectries > # in the present directory and replaces them with underscores, and removes > # the folowing charictors from the filenames. > # : ( ) , % & > # > > { > ls -1 |awk -F : '{ print "file=\""$1"\"; mv \""$file"\" \$( echo $file | tr \" \" _ | tr -d \\(\\)\\,\\:\\%\\& )" }'| bash > } > /dev/null 2>&1 > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From jheim at facstaff.wisc.edu Tue Feb 19 11:46:35 2002 From: jheim at facstaff.wisc.edu (Jack Heim) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:46:35 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug -- confirmation of subscription -- request 768254 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020219113909.00a78040@facstaff.wisc.edu> >I have a chance to buy a 486 laptop w/ 24 Mb ram and an 800 Mb HD really >cheap. No CD. But it does have a PCMCIA network card. I'm blind and I do everything in character mode anyway so I don't need much of a machine. I was thinking of getting this thing and putting linux on it as much to say, "See how great linux is. Here I have a 486 and it does everything I want." What do you think of my odds of succeeding in this venture? Any tips? How can I install linux on a PC with 24 Mb RAM but no CD? I was looking at SUSE and made an installation diskette for a 486. But it came up with an error saying I needed 72 Mb of RAM to do a FTP install. From scayford at tds.net Tue Feb 19 12:55:25 2002 From: scayford at tds.net (Steven Cayford) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:55:25 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug -- confirmation of subscription -- request 768254 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020219113909.00a78040@facstaff.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <3BE50B57-256A-11D6-85D0-003065ECC2BC@tds.net> I would refer you to http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Laptop-HOWTO.html and http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/4mb-Laptops.html for a good source on the theory. I managed to get Slackware on a 4mb 486 laptop using these sites as primary references. Of course it crawls, but with 24MB you should have much better results and shouldn't need to jump through as many hoops to work around the 4MB limit. I haven't tried any other distribution on a small machine other than LEAF/Oxygen which is probably too specialized for a general-use computer (it's designed primarily as a router). Slackware is nice for this since you can install from a desktop over NFS, and you have pretty good control over what packages get installed and which don't. I don't know what other distributions have these capabilities, but I'm sure Slackware isn't the only one. -Steve On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 11:46 AM, Jack Heim wrote: > >> I have a chance to buy a 486 laptop w/ 24 Mb ram and an 800 Mb HD >> really cheap. No CD. But it does have a PCMCIA network card. > > I'm blind and I do everything in character mode anyway so I don't need > much of a machine. I was thinking of getting this thing and putting > linux on it as much to say, "See how great linux is. Here I have a 486 > and it does everything I want." > > What do you think of my odds of succeeding in this venture? Any tips? > How can I install linux on a PC with 24 Mb RAM but no CD? I was looking > at SUSE and made an installation diskette for a 486. But it came up > with an error saying I needed 72 Mb of RAM to do a FTP install. > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 14:20:44 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:20:44 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214B9@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Well, speaking for the a certain state agency mail environment, 10's of thousands of dollars go to Microsoft just for the email environment. Plus the added hardware costs because Exchange is not a complete product by itself so added annual storage costs are in the 100,000. Nathan -----Original Message----- From: Harv Nelson [mailto:harv at tds.net] Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:07 AM To: Ted and Robin Shoemaker Cc: Madlug Subject: Re: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) It'd be interesting to know just how many of those taxpayer dollars ... state, county, city, etc ... get piped off to M$ every year. Anyone know if that info was included in the recent lawsuit? (or where it might be found ... I doubt it shows up as a single budget line item) Might give "Scotty" and idea of how/where he could "beam-up" some loot. Harv =================== "Horse sense is what keeps horses from betting on what people will do." Author Unknown http://kg9ga.shacknet.nu http://mcbird.ath.cx Ted and Robin Shoemaker wrote: This was on the mail of another LUG I belong to, with permission to modify & resend to other elected officials. I believe it was originally taken from desktoplinux.org. ------------- Governor Warner, As a citizen and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I am deeply concerned about the current budgetary crisis. When there's a shortfall, conventional wisdom holds that we either need to raise taxes or cut programs. However, there's a third alternative that you may not be aware of: free software. snipped -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/attachments/20020219/6ed594b1/attachment.htm From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 19 14:24:44 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:24:44 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) In-Reply-To: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214B9@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us>; from nathan.black@dot.state.wi.us on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:20:44PM -0600 References: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214B9@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Message-ID: <20020219142444.E9480@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:20:44PM -0600, Black, Nathan wrote: > Well, speaking for the a certain state agency mail environment, 10's of > thousands of dollars go to Microsoft just for the email environment. Plus > the added hardware costs because Exchange is not a complete product by > itself so added annual storage costs are in the 100,000. Holy cow, we're in a state with a $1bn deficit and we're still paying M$ for the privilege of buggy software? egads. Who can I write a letter to? wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 14:27:15 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:27:15 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug -- confirmation of subscription -- reques t 768254 Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BA@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> I generally follow the rule of "use a distribution that came out at approximately the same time or a bit after the hardware cam out." If its a 486 look for the earlier versions of your distro of choice and you will probably find one that suits the box. (although Slack 7 in my experience seems to work great on all old and new hardware.) Nathan > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Cayford [mailto:scayford at tds.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:55 PM > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: Re: [Madlug] Re: Madlug -- confirmation of subscription -- > request 768254 > > > I would refer you to > http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Laptop-HOWTO.html and > http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/4mb-Laptops.html for a good > source on the > theory. > > I managed to get Slackware on a 4mb 486 laptop using these sites as > primary references. Of course it crawls, but with 24MB you > should have > much better results and shouldn't need to jump through as > many hoops to > work around the 4MB limit. I haven't tried any other > distribution on a > small machine other than LEAF/Oxygen which is probably too > specialized > for a general-use computer (it's designed primarily as a router). > Slackware is nice for this since you can install from a desktop over > NFS, and you have pretty good control over what packages get > installed > and which don't. I don't know what other distributions have these > capabilities, but I'm sure Slackware isn't the only one. > > -Steve > > > On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 11:46 AM, Jack Heim wrote: > > > > >> I have a chance to buy a 486 laptop w/ 24 Mb ram and an 800 Mb HD > >> really cheap. No CD. But it does have a PCMCIA network card. > > > > I'm blind and I do everything in character mode anyway so I > don't need > > much of a machine. I was thinking of getting this thing and putting > > linux on it as much to say, "See how great linux is. Here I > have a 486 > > and it does everything I want." > > > > What do you think of my odds of succeeding in this venture? > Any tips? > > How can I install linux on a PC with 24 Mb RAM but no CD? I > was looking > > at SUSE and made an installation diskette for a 486. But it came up > > with an error saying I needed 72 Mb of RAM to do a FTP install. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 14:40:33 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:40:33 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BB@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Dept of E-Gov, the spiffy-new-just-what-we-need agency, is looking to become the next big thing(tm) as far as IT goes for the State. Take a look at the site wisconsin.gov and read all about it. All the state agencies are part of one big exchange org with DOA as the x.400 'hub' (see executive order 242) that requires all agencies standardize on MS software. We were an OS/2 shop until this year, we are dis-allowed implementation of any other architectures besides MS products.. (we actually own the entire suite of lotus Domino but were told to scrap that project and use Exchange...) Some work is underway to establish 'open' standards but its slow going. Petition for the reversal of that order maybe? Perhaps after the elections for gov'ner, a fund raiser for open systems for an open government might cause some swing? Like one of those dinners at 100$ a plate or something. Or maybe, we could make a campaign contribution to one of the runner-up governors to maybe make a campaign promise to use open standards? Nathan *brainstorm* Black > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Benton [mailto:willb at cs.wisc.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:25 PM > To: Black, Nathan > Cc: 'harv at tds.net'; Madlug > Subject: Re: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this > is on topic) > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:20:44PM -0600, Black, Nathan wrote: > > Well, speaking for the a certain state agency mail > environment, 10's of > > thousands of dollars go to Microsoft just for the email > environment. Plus > > the added hardware costs because Exchange is not a complete > product by > > itself so added annual storage costs are in the 100,000. > > Holy cow, we're in a state with a $1bn deficit and we're > still paying M$ for > the privilege of buggy software? > > egads. Who can I write a letter to? > > > > wb > > -- > Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re > eigentlich > willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." > From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 19 14:49:49 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:49:49 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) In-Reply-To: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BB@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us>; from nathan.black@dot.state.wi.us on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:40:33PM -0600 References: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BB@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Message-ID: <20020219144949.F9480@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> It looks to me like Executive Order #242 (available online as a Word document, natch: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:0JCfW3gGxNsC:enterprise.state.wi.us/static/strategic/pdf_pp/exec_ord.doc+wisconsin+executive+order+242&hl=en) only calls for consolidation of IT resources among the 53 state agencies -- NOT for standardizing on Microsoft. Standardizing on Free software, it seems, would be within the realm of this order. wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From rickphil at hotpop.com Tue Feb 19 15:13:58 2002 From: rickphil at hotpop.com (rick) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:13:58 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) References: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BB@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> <20020219144949.F9480@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <3C72C016.20000@hotpop.com> I use to work with a company that did contract work for the state at Info Tech (the name used at the time). As was once explained to me, what this decree did was take the dozens of different individual mainframes the state used (IBM and Amadahl) and locate them in one central location. All the data libraries were also consolidated to make one large library (which is where I worked). The one big exception is the Univeristy, which is an entity unto itself. Will Benton wrote: >It looks to me like Executive Order #242 (available online as a Word >document, natch: >http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:0JCfW3gGxNsC:enterprise.state.wi.us/static/strategic/pdf_pp/exec_ord.doc+wisconsin+executive+order+242&hl=en) >only calls for consolidation of IT resources among the 53 state >agencies -- NOT for standardizing on Microsoft. Standardizing on Free >software, it seems, would be within the realm of this order. > > > > >wb > From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 15:25:52 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:25:52 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BC@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> ok. let me rephrase that. It states that we have to agree with DOA. DOA says NT 4.0 for servers and workstations. > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Benton [mailto:willb at cs.wisc.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:50 PM > To: Black, Nathan > Cc: 'Will Benton'; 'harv at tds.net'; Madlug > Subject: Re: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this > is on topic) > > > It looks to me like Executive Order #242 (available online as a Word > document, natch: > http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:0JCfW3gGxNsC:enterprise.s tate.wi.us/static/strategic/pdf_pp/exec_ord.doc+wisconsin+executive+order+24 2&hl=en) > only calls for consolidation of IT resources among the 53 state > agencies -- NOT for standardizing on Microsoft. Standardizing on Free > software, it seems, would be within the realm of this order. > > > > > wb > > -- > Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re > eigentlich > willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." > From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 15:27:10 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:27:10 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BD@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> > The one big exception is the Univeristy, which is an entity > unto itself. > and so is the legislature. > -----Original Message----- > From: rick [mailto:rickphil at hotpop.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:14 PM > To: Madlug > Subject: Re: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this > is on topic) > > > I use to work with a company that did contract work for the state at > Info Tech (the name used at the time). > > As was once explained to me, what this decree did was take > the dozens > of different individual mainframes the state used (IBM and > Amadahl) and > locate them in one central location. All the data libraries > were also > consolidated to make one large library (which is where I worked). > > The one big exception is the Univeristy, which is an entity > unto itself. > > Will Benton wrote: > > >It looks to me like Executive Order #242 (available online as a Word > >document, natch: > >http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:0JCfW3gGxNsC:enterprise. state.wi.us/static/strategic/pdf_pp/exec_ord.doc+wisconsin+executive+order+2 42&hl=en) > >only calls for consolidation of IT resources among the 53 state > >agencies -- NOT for standardizing on Microsoft. > Standardizing on Free > >software, it seems, would be within the realm of this order. > > > > > > > > > >wb > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Tue Feb 19 15:36:29 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:36:29 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BE@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Originally there was some 'infighting' between the agencies which necessitated the request of DOA to the then Governor Tommy Thompson to solve these disputes and to get some authority over what the other state agencies would do. Hence the executive order. As you read section 2b understand that statement gives DOA full authority to establish standards and have them enforced. The standard that DOA instated required the use of NT, however, as the move for IT services is now to be provided under DEG, there becomes the opportunity to have such 'standards' reversed.. The fact that many smaller agencies still utilize novell or other alternative platforms because their funding comes from the 'general' fund, they don' t have the resources to upgrade keeps the hope alive that some inroads will be made towards that goal. . Some of the larger agencies or ones that provide their own funding can and do provide their own solutions, all under the DOA standards umbrella. Three are exceptions to this rule, however. For instance, we do have a VM of Linux running on our Mainframe because there is not a specified 'standard' regarding mainframes.... >From the doc: 2. It is my intent that the Department of Administration plan and administer the state's information technologies on an "enterprise" basis emulating the management of a private enterprise in that the state's strategic planning efforts will be focused on the Wisconsin state government as a "single corporate enterprise" and not the many separate agencies. FURTHER, THEREFORE, I TOMMY G. THOMPSON, Governor of the State of Wisconsin, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of this State, do hereby: Direct that the Department of Administration will; a. prepare an enterprise infrastructure assessment of state agencies and institutions; b. establish enterprise information technology standards for the components of the state's IT infrastructure; c. prepare an information technology infrastructure initiative to provide a basic information technology infrastructure for all state agencies and institutions; and. Nathan > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Benton [mailto:willb at cs.wisc.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:50 PM > To: Black, Nathan > Cc: 'Will Benton'; 'harv at tds.net'; Madlug > Subject: Re: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this > is on topic) > > > It looks to me like Executive Order #242 (available online as a Word > document, natch: > http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:0JCfW3gGxNsC:enterprise.s tate.wi.us/static/strategic/pdf_pp/exec_ord.doc+wisconsin+executive+order+24 2&hl=en) > only calls for consolidation of IT resources among the 53 state > agencies -- NOT for standardizing on Microsoft. Standardizing on Free > software, it seems, would be within the realm of this order. > > > > > wb > > -- > Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re > eigentlich > willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." > From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 19 16:15:27 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:15:27 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] letter to elected officials (Yes this is on topic) In-Reply-To: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BE@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us>; from nathan.black@dot.state.wi.us on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 03:36:29PM -0600 References: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BE@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Message-ID: <20020219161527.B21606@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> Thanks for the "inside scoop", Nathan. I am writing Gov. McCallum. If there's anything else I need to know, could you pass it along? wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From hardburn at runbox.com Tue Feb 19 16:55:56 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:55:56 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: Madlug -- confirmation of subscription -- reques t 768254 In-Reply-To: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BA@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> References: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214BA@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 19 February 2002 14:27, you wrote: > I generally follow the rule of "use a distribution that came out at > approximately the same time or a bit after the hardware cam out." If its a > 486 look for the earlier versions of your distro of choice and you will > probably find one that suits the box. (although Slack 7 in my experience > seems to work great on all old and new hardware.) I've never had a problem with any of the newer Debian stuff on old hardware; the only exception is if your machine has 4 MB or less of RAM. This is mostly due to extra space taken by glibc. To get GNU/Linux on anything like that, look at Small Linux or Slack 3.3. - -- This message double encrypted with ROT13. Decoding is punishable by death under the DMCA. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxy2AEACgkQqpueKcacfLQVEACaAyC6E7bO0rg43OPnox5wBkW4 WBwAoLxAYoftD6L8+dh6G8SzMH2zCRBL =sIn6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From carder at cae.wisc.edu Tue Feb 19 23:15:00 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:15:00 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] snort Message-ID: <20020219231500.B3532@cae.wisc.edu> I know some of you out there have some experience with "snort". How much CPU (lets talk intel) power would it take to examine, say, 50 Mb/s continous with peaks up to 150 Mb/s? This particular application looks at both sides of a fairly active full-duplex 100mbit link which is delivered to the snorter via (2) 100Mbit network links, one for outbound and one for inbound. (full duplex traffic can't be replicated when in+out>100 without some loss in this environment) On a related note, has anyone seen stats relating to *nix based firewalls and how they perform as the number of rules grow? I am particularly interested what happens when you approach around 2^11 lines of rules. Thanks. -Dale From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 20 11:27:46 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:27:46 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Consultant wanted Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020220112339.023ff108@pc> Consultant needed. On-site work in Jefferson, WI, 35 minutes east of Madison. I'd like some assistance and advice setting up servers to handle several tasks for a new wireless ISP. Linux or BSD is desired. I need a virtual hosting web server, a mail POP to handle several domains each with their own set of distinct e-mail addresses, and DNS etc. as necessary. I need a traffic-shaping box to dole out wireless bandwidth per-MAC address. Please send a resume and your rates in private e-mail. - John www.goJefferson.com From nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us Wed Feb 20 15:09:23 2002 From: nathan.black at dot.state.wi.us (Black, Nathan) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:09:23 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] snort Message-ID: <117EB231197AD51192150003474D3AE24214CB@mad00mp5.dot.state.wi.us> aye, That question was asked at the linux world conference in the LIDS presentation.. The speaker (David Allen of Hewlett Packard) didn't know but Jay Bealle(sp?) of Bastille Linux was in the audience and said that with full logging on and mirroring multiple 100mb ports it could take more than 40% of your cpu. Essentially it depends on how many ports are mirrored and your rule set. He recommended 2 dedicated machines, one at the 'in' and one on the 'out' logging off to a mysql server. Nathan p.s. David Allen doesn't talk about performance but does talk about snort and add-ons in his presentation. I have the conference CD if you want a copy of his LIDS .ppt and accompanying docs, send me an email off list. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale W. Carder [mailto:carder at cae.wisc.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:15 PM > To: madlug at madisonlinux.org > Subject: [Madlug] snort > > > I know some of you out there have some experience with "snort". > How much CPU (lets talk intel) power would it take to examine, > say, 50 Mb/s continous with peaks up to 150 Mb/s? > > This particular application looks at both sides of a fairly > active full-duplex 100mbit link which is delivered to the snorter > via (2) 100Mbit network links, one for outbound and one for > inbound. (full duplex traffic can't be replicated when in+out>100 > without some loss in this environment) > > On a related note, has anyone seen stats relating to *nix based > firewalls and how they perform as the number of rules grow? > I am particularly interested what happens when you approach > around 2^11 lines of rules. > > Thanks. > -Dale > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 04:13:30 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:13:30 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Question about hard drive ISO install. Message-ID: Hello all. I'm a new member of the list. I've been using Linux off and on for about 3 years now, but only recently (2 months ago) windoze frustrated me SO MUCH that I am installing ONLY Linux on my computer. I don't do anything useful in Windows anyway... And I'm totally sick of the constant reinstall cycle that is so neccessary in a windows environment. So... After Windows 2000 Pro barfed all over the place, I installed an old copy of Turbolinux 6 on my brand new spiffy hard drive. I had some troubles setting up the sound (SB 16 Vibra) finally discovered it was ONLY capable of 8 bit... I can live with that. Had some troubles setting up my website on the DSL line... File permission problems with Apache... But all was solved... Until of course I tried to copy my 4.5 gigs of desperately neccessary stuff off the windows drive so I could make linux the sole owner of my system. Something happened (dunno if it was hardware or software), and it wiped the entire /home directory (after 2 hours of fsck of course). Everything I love in the world (except my wife), gone. Luckily, I still have an old backup. Can you believe I had to salvage what I could of my poor web page from a friend's browser cache??? Unfortunately all the custom made CGIs (two weeks work) are gone. (hit counter, and others) But now I'm having two new problems. System: 1400Mhz Athlon Thunderbird (No MP/XP) 256MB PC133 RAM 40GB IBM Deskstar Hard Drive Matrox Millennium II 4MB Video (great 2D, no 3D) My previous installation looked like this: //All are primary partitions ~8GB Linux (/) 127MB Linux Swap (old red hat install limited to 127MB) 350MB BeOS 4.5 31GB Windows 2K Pro (Upgrade) My goal setup: //First three are primary, the rest are logical in an extended partition ~8GB Linux (/) 400MB Linux Swap 400MB BeOS 4.5 (or possibly 670MB for an ISO drive) (extended) 30GB Linux (/home) 10GB Linux (/backup) I'm having trouble getting Linux to install again on the hard drive. Windows 2K seems to install fine again, but Turbolinux's CFDISK (and regular FDISK) do not seem to recognize the drive all of the time, and every time I try to write the partition table, they die with a message saying "file not found". Apparently, they write the table just fine, but can't read it back off. (or that's what it seems) My BeOS 4.5 CD seems to format the drives correctly and without error (very handy pre-install formatting utility btw), Win2k performs the operation without complaint. But the Turbolinux utilities will not work for some reason. I DID install it fine before, but something is causing troubles this time. I've tried setting the drive to LBA, Large, and CHS, with no luck. My BIOS recognizes the drive just fine, and I previously had Linux installed on the first 8 gigs of the drive, with LBA. Also, my old Redhat 5.2 Distro complains about the drive with the same error. Anyway, if you have any ideas about that one, I'd love to hear them, but I've got another question. After I get this new ISO downloaded (Turbolinux 6.1 Workstation), I want to TRY the install with that, as it may support more hard drives, or with better error checking, or newer access methods, allowing me to install it. The problem comes from installing from the ISO, on a Windows NTFS or FAT32 formatted partition. I don't have a CD Burner. Is there an easy way to do this? Should I use my TL6.0 CD and choose the hard drive install? Do I need to "break" the ISO into it's constituant files, or can I do it from the image itself? I've also heard that some linux installs require the files to be on an EXT2/3 partition for the install to work. Has anyone installed linux this way? Well, there it is. Sorry for the long post. If anyone's interested, I'm a fairly new (2nd semester) student at Herzing College, in the CIS program (Programming). I'm originally from De Pere (just below Green Bay), and I moved to Madison in October of last year. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in C++ programming, and can find my way around a Linux box pretty well recently. (which is why I decided to finally take the plunge) If anyone has a job (paying) or a small task that needs doing such as a cgi script (out of the kindness of my heart), I'd be happy to hear from you. Cheers, --Stephen Blair --funkymanateeDOESN'T_LIKE_SPAM at hotmail.com --www.millenniumtree.com (currently undergoing reconstruction) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From hardburn at runbox.com Thu Feb 21 12:48:07 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:48:07 GMT Subject: [Madlug] Question about hard drive ISO install. Message-ID: > So... After Windows 2000 Pro barfed all over the place, I installed an old > copy of Turbolinux 6 on my brand new spiffy hard drive. > I had some troubles setting up the sound (SB 16 Vibra) finally discovered it > was ONLY capable of 8 bit... I can live with that. > Had some troubles setting up my website on the DSL line... File permission > problems with Apache... But all was solved... TurboLinux is a dead distro (the company went under). You'll be better off looking at Red Hat, Mandrake, or Debian. > > Until of course I tried to copy my 4.5 gigs of desperately neccessary stuff > off the windows drive so I could make linux the sole owner of my system. Yay! > Something happened (dunno if it was hardware or software), and it wiped the > entire /home directory (after 2 hours of fsck of course). Doh! <> > > My goal setup: > //First three are primary, the rest are logical in an extended partition > ~8GB Linux (/) > 400MB Linux Swap > 400MB BeOS 4.5 (or possibly 670MB for an ISO drive) > (extended) > 30GB Linux (/home) > 10GB Linux (/backup) I'd suggest breaking up your / partition more. Try 100-500 MB on /, 100-1000 MB on /var (you'll have lots of logs since you're running a web server, and this is where they'll be stored), and the rest on /usr. Use extended partitions as necessary, of course. Also, if you go with a newer distro, you'll want to check out some of the newer journaling file systems, like ReiserFS or ext3 (I sense an old flame war coming back . . . ) <> > Is there an easy way to do this? Should I use my TL6.0 CD and choose the > hard drive install? Do I need to "break" the ISO into it's constituant > files, or can I do it from the image itself? You'll need some way of accessing the files when you install it. Since you don't have a CD burner, this means you'll need some way of setting up the ISO image as a loopback file. I don't think the installation disks for most distros have support for that kind of thing (but I may be wrong). However, most distros will allow you to get files off a pre-formatted disk partition. So you could get the CD image, copy all the files (the actual packages on the ISO, not the ISO image itself) to an ext2 partition, then point the installation program at the partition. If you go with Debian, you could just create the boot, root, and driver disks and do the rest of the installation over the Internet; no CD image required. > I've also heard that some > linux installs require the files to be on an EXT2/3 partition for the > install to work. You don't have to, but you *can* do it that way, if you want to. From wa4chq at qsl.net Thu Feb 21 16:56:39 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (neil tanner) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:56:39 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line Message-ID: <200202212255.RAA06746@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Hello all- I am currently using RH 7.2, and when I installed it, I set it to start in the graphix mode. Is there anyway to change this so that when I boot up, it will start at the command line? Thanks- Neil -- Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 17:04:03 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:04:03 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Question about hard drive ISO install. Message-ID: >TurboLinux is a dead distro (the company went under). You'll be better off >looking at Red Hat, Mandrake, or Debian. > DEAD??? NO!!! I really liked that distro... :( Their web page is still up though?? And I can download distros! Hmm.. I'll check the date on the latest distro. Aw man, a whole year ago was the latest release... Turbolinux 6 was quite nice too. I think I'll go with Mandrake, any suggestions?? --Steve _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From wa4chq at qsl.net Thu Feb 21 17:06:44 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (neil tanner) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:06:44 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] peanut linux Message-ID: <200202212306.SAA15753@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Hello- Anyone on the list use Peanut Linux? I am wondering how well it works. Thanks- Neil http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq -- Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP From willb at cs.wisc.edu Thu Feb 21 17:08:41 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:08:41 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line In-Reply-To: <200202212255.RAA06746@lycanthrope.crosslink.net>; from wa4chq@qsl.net on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 05:56:39PM -0500 References: <200202212255.RAA06746@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Message-ID: <20020221170841.J13231@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 05:56:39PM -0500, neil tanner wrote: > Hello all- > I am currently using RH 7.2, and when I installed it, I set it to start in > the graphix mode. Is there anyway to change this so that when I boot up, it > will start at the command line? Thanks- Edit /etc/inittab, and change the "initdefault" number from 5 to 3. i.e.: id:5:initdefault: becomes id:3:initdefault: -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From willb at cs.wisc.edu Thu Feb 21 17:15:01 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:15:01 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] x86 -> ppc? Message-ID: <20020221171501.K13231@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> I'm curious if anyone on the list has migrated from x86 linux to ppc linux and would be willing to share experiences/perceptions. wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From tim at madweb.org Thu Feb 21 17:20:53 2002 From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:20:53 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] apt4rpm Experiences? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221171723.00b16890@madweb.2y.net> Greetings all, I recently tried installing apt4rpm on one of my redhat test boxen. So far the results have been rather nice, but I was wondering if anyone else has had any experience, good or bad, with the rpm apt system. If you haven't heard of it, you can find some info on it at some of these sites: http://freshrpms.net/apt/ http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ Cheers, Tim Schaab Mad.Web * http://www.madweb.org * More exciting than boredom Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; Persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; Persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot. By Order of the Author -- Mark Twain, "Tom Sawyer" From NLenz at IVCF.ORG Thu Feb 21 20:26:32 2002 From: NLenz at IVCF.ORG (Nathan Lenz) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:26:32 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] peanut linux Message-ID: <737B30F98FB5D3119D9600508BA2503B020031F3@nscntms.ivcf.org> I used it a few years ago... in 1998 I think. I worked in a computer lab at a Junior College and we used it to play around with linux on the lab's computers. I remember that the command line worked well,...we never got X working very well though. That was a few years ago though... Nathan > -----Original Message----- > From: neil tanner [mailto:wa4chq at qsl.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:07 PM > To: madison linux > Subject: [Madlug] peanut linux > > > Hello- > Anyone on the list use Peanut Linux? I am wondering how well > it works. > Thanks- > Neil > http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq > -- > Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > > From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 23:52:04 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:52:04 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers Message-ID: I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome under turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed quite comfortable. Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know what's available when I've finished the install. :) --Steve _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 23:57:03 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:57:03 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line Message-ID: > > I am currently using RH 7.2, and when I installed it, I set it to start >in > > the graphix mode. Is there anyway to change this so that when I boot >up, it > > will start at the command line? Thanks- > >Edit /etc/inittab, and change the "initdefault" number from 5 to 3. > >i.e.: > id:5:initdefault: >becomes > id:3:initdefault: > >-- >Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich >willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." I believe this is also the last option in the Xconfigurator setup... Or last I remember (from a 1999 distro anyway) What exactly is in inittab?? I never messed with it. (It's ok if you call me a newbie, with a question like that...) :\ --Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 00:01:38 2002 From: ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu (Aaron Schumacher) Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:01:38 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014357698.8276.4.camel@wushu> # inittab This file describes how the INIT process should set up # the system in a certain run-level. In RedHat (and similar) distros, runlevel 5 is graphical login, and 3 is multiuser textmode. Here's my SlackWare summary: # These are the default runlevels in Slackware: # 0 = halt # 1 = single user mode # 2 = unused (but configured the same as runlevel 3) # 3 = multiuser mode (default Slackware runlevel) # 4 = X11 with KDM/GDM/XDM (session managers) # 5 = unused (but configured the same as runlevel 3) # 6 = reboot The file contains references to stuff in your /etc/rc.d (or depending on SysV/BSD init...), and just generally ensures that your computer behaves the way you'd expect (or at least how the author would expect) when you turn it on. - Aaron On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 23:57, Steve Blair wrote: > > > I am currently using RH 7.2, and when I installed it, I set it to start > >in > > > the graphix mode. Is there anyway to change this so that when I boot > >up, it > > > will start at the command line? Thanks- > > > >Edit /etc/inittab, and change the "initdefault" number from 5 to 3. > > > >i.e.: > > id:5:initdefault: > >becomes > > id:3:initdefault: > > > >-- > >Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich > >willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." > > I believe this is also the last option in the Xconfigurator setup... Or > last I remember (from a 1999 distro anyway) > > What exactly is in inittab?? I never messed with it. > (It's ok if you call me a newbie, with a question like that...) :\ > > --Steve > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 00:08:51 2002 From: ajschumache2 at students.wisc.edu (Aaron Schumacher) Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:08:51 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014358132.8279.12.camel@wushu> I must say that I've been quite happy with my graphical environment: sawfish window manager, gnome 1.4, NO NAUTILUS. Without Nautilus, which I find painful, Gnome is quite responsive on my 800Mhz Duron. Sawfish I picked purely because it's the "standard" for gnome. It seems to handle everything in a reasonable manner. As long as you're mentioning holy wars... KDE is really ugly. I mean WOW, that is one ugly user interface. That thing NEEDS native anti-aliasing just so that I won't get CUT on its ICONS! So anyway, I like gnome (stock over ximian) with sawfish. - Aaron On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 23:52, Steve Blair wrote: > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does > everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome under > turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed quite > comfortable. > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know what's > available when I've finished the install. :) > > --Steve > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 01:04:12 2002 From: spkraus1 at students.wisc.edu (Steven P. Krause) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:04:12 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020222005953.009f20e0@students.wisc.edu> Hello all, Come one, come all -- the next MadLUG Coffeehouse meeting. When: Friday Feb. 22, 7pm Where: Steep & Brew, State Street Who: All of us! And given the recent thread about favorite window managers -- why don't we make it an evening of our favorite flame-wars past and present --> KDE vs. Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll at least keep it civil. See you there. --Steve Krause http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~spkraus1 "You possess a mind not merely twisted, but actually sprained." From wa4chq at qsl.net Fri Feb 22 03:08:14 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (neil tanner) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:08:14 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] thanks Message-ID: <200202220907.EAA09401@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Thanks for the info and tips- Neil -- Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP rules-- http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq From tinberg at securepipe.com Fri Feb 22 03:11:55 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:11:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020222005953.009f20e0@students.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Steven P. Krause wrote: > Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll at least > keep it civil. Aww! Can't we at least schedule a food fight? -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . Alas, how love can trifle with itself! -- William Shakespeare, "The Two Gentlemen of Verona" From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 03:50:57 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:50:57 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* Message-ID: > > Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll I write my own editors, that way I know all the commands! What? No gzipped tarballs??? *gasp!* :) --Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From jmjaco at charter.net Fri Feb 22 07:41:58 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:41:58 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020222134158.GA25179@strider> On 02/22/02, Steve Blair wrote: > >> Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll > > I write my own editors, that way I know all the commands! > What? No gzipped tarballs??? *gasp!* Real "men" start writing their code like this: % cat >spiffyeditor.tar.bz2 :-) Jesse P.S. Just installed Cygwin in my VMWare Win95 machine last night. It's a good thing that didn't exist when I first made the switch to Linux! It's nice. I'm trying to get Win95 to use my cups print server, and it seems that MS had a Win95 update for IPP/cups, but has made the update unavailable from their web site. Lots of information about upgrading to XP though -- what a waste of money. The only reason we keep Windoze around is to run TurboTax, which this year occupies 50mb, plus 80mb for Internet Exploiter, which is required. What a joke! I'd gladly pay Intuit a little extra each year to get TurboTax for Linux. -- Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen From rferguson at voyager.net Fri Feb 22 07:20:42 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:20:42 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1014358132.8279.12.camel@wushu> References: <1014358132.8279.12.camel@wushu> Message-ID: <200202221423.g1MEN6q58046@mail3.mx.voyager.net> I'll cast a vote for KDE. I find it to be more functional than Gnome. Gnome has fallen behind, and now there talking about turning proprietary and embracing .NET. -ray. > On Friday 22 February 2002 01:08 am, you wrote: > I must say that I've been quite happy with my graphical environment: > sawfish window manager, gnome 1.4, NO NAUTILUS. Without Nautilus, which > I find painful, Gnome is quite responsive on my 800Mhz Duron. Sawfish I > picked purely because it's the "standard" for gnome. It seems to handle > everything in a reasonable manner. > > As long as you're mentioning holy wars... KDE is really ugly. I mean > WOW, that is one ugly user interface. That thing NEEDS native > anti-aliasing just so that I won't get CUT on its ICONS! > > So anyway, I like gnome (stock over ximian) with sawfish. > > - Aaron > > On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 23:52, Steve Blair wrote: > > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers > > does everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome > > under turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed > > quite comfortable. > > > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know > > what's available when I've finished the install. :) > > > > --Steve > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 22 08:39:51 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:39:51 GMT Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers Message-ID: I prefer Sawfish. I've tried Enlightenment, but it hasn't been responsive enough for me in the past (but perhaps newer versions are better?). Sawfish is reasonably responsive and is good-enough in feature count. To tell you the truth, I have yet to see a window manager I really, really liked. One of these days I should try out IceWM or some of the other managers. > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does > everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome under > turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed quite > comfortable. > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know what's > available when I've finished the install. :) > > --Steve > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From chris at clotho.com Fri Feb 22 08:40:45 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:40:45 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] x86 -> ppc? References: <20020221171501.K13231@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <3C76586D.6010307@clotho.com> Will Benton wrote: > I'm curious if anyone on the list has migrated from x86 linux to ppc > linux and would be willing to share experiences/perceptions. Well, this probably isn't all that helpful, but I experimented with YellowDog Linux for about a week last summer on a spare G3 PowerBook we had lying around. It was really superb. Through installation, it was the best Linux experience I had (better than Mandrake or RedHat). The hardware seemed well supported. The thing that turned me away in the end was a few minor bugs and time. The "yup" updater was broken in the early releases. I didn't have the time to do RPMS installs, so I put the YDL box aside and never got back to it. So, I never got a few things installed that I thought I needed (I don't even remember what they were now...) Now I'm on MacOS X and, quite frankly, it's unlikely that I would switch to Linux on the desktop for the foreseeable future. I am (and my company is) totally committed to Linux on the server side, but OS X is so nice that the complications of Linux aren't worth it for day-to-day stuff. I've got Gnome running; dselect works great; mozilla, emacs, perl, mysql, and apache are working as expected (although the apache installed by default has some failings...). In addition I get Photoshop, Office, Flash, etc. which are occasional requisites for the job. It definitely requires more modern hardware than Linux, but I'm happy on an early-model desktop G4. Chris From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 22 08:43:58 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:43:58 GMT Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* Message-ID: > On 02/22/02, Steve Blair wrote: > > >> Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll > > > > I write my own editors, that way I know all the commands! > > What? No gzipped tarballs??? *gasp!* > > Real "men" start writing their code like this: > > % cat >spiffyeditor.tar.bz2 Real Programmers do a "dd if=/dev/random" and hope for the best. From dave at weccusa.org Fri Feb 22 08:37:46 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 22 Feb 2002 08:37:46 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <200202221423.g1MEN6q58046@mail3.mx.voyager.net> References: <1014358132.8279.12.camel@wushu> <200202221423.g1MEN6q58046@mail3.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <1014388666.17213.9.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Now you've started the war :-). I've never used KDE before but I can tell you about what I've read about Gnome and .NOT. 1) Gnome is not proprietary. Never has, never will. The same could not be said before about the QT licensing a few years back (and yes I know that issue has been resolved). 2) Ximian, Nat Friedman, and Miguel are not GNOME. Miguel is the man behind Gnome and Ximian and unfortunately he adores M$ but in reality Gnome is another Open Source/GNU product and if Miguel gets hit by a bus Gnome continues on. 3) Galeon, Galeon, Galeon. 4) Examples of how KDE is more funtional please? I could throw blanket statements around like that but since I don't use KDE I won't. I'd like some examples so maybe I can explore the differences. As you can tell I'm a Gnomer and have yet to find anything I can't do. On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 07:20, raymond wrote: > I'll cast a vote for KDE. I find it to be more functional than Gnome. Gnome > has fallen behind, and now there talking about turning proprietary and > embracing .NET. > -ray. > > > On Friday 22 February 2002 01:08 am, you wrote: > > I must say that I've been quite happy with my graphical environment: > > sawfish window manager, gnome 1.4, NO NAUTILUS. Without Nautilus, which > > I find painful, Gnome is quite responsive on my 800Mhz Duron. Sawfish I > > picked purely because it's the "standard" for gnome. It seems to handle > > everything in a reasonable manner. > > > > As long as you're mentioning holy wars... KDE is really ugly. I mean > > WOW, that is one ugly user interface. That thing NEEDS native > > anti-aliasing just so that I won't get CUT on its ICONS! > > > > So anyway, I like gnome (stock over ximian) with sawfish. > > > > - Aaron > > > > On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 23:52, Steve Blair wrote: > > > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers > > > does everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome > > > under turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed > > > quite comfortable. > > > > > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know > > > what's available when I've finished the install. :) > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From chris at clotho.com Fri Feb 22 08:52:36 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:52:36 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers References: Message-ID: <3C765B34.4000905@clotho.com> I'm a minimalist and generally prefer fvwm2 without KDE or Gnome. Under gnome, I prefer oroborus for speed and simplicity, but sawfish is fine too. I found enlightenment to be too cumbersome. I've heard good things about IceWM from a fellow minimalist, but like Timm, I haven't tried it. Chris Timm Murray wrote: > I prefer Sawfish. I've tried Enlightenment, but it hasn't been responsive enough for me in > the past (but perhaps newer versions are better?). Sawfish is reasonably responsive > and is good-enough in feature count. > > To tell you the truth, I have yet to see a window manager I really, really liked. One of > these days I should try out IceWM or some of the other managers. > > >>I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does >>everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome under >>turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed quite >>comfortable. >> >>Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know what's >>available when I've finished the install. :) >> >>--Steve >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org >>http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 22 08:57:52 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:57:52 GMT Subject: Gnome and .NET (was: Re: [Madlug] Window Managers) Message-ID: > I'll cast a vote for KDE. I find it to be more functional than Gnome. Gnome > has fallen behind, and now there talking about turning proprietary and > embracing .NET. Err, no, that was a quote taken out of context. First of all, the whole .NET concept is buried in a bizzare blur of marketing and techincal details to the point where nobody really knows what .NET is. However, portions of the whole ".NET" mess, such as the C# language and the CLR concept, are what Miguel likes so much (as he explained in his reply: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-02-06-011-20-OP-GN-MS). Though the C# and CLR standards may be controlled by Microsoft, there is nothing stoping someone (like Miguel) from making a Free Software version of the standards. Miguel is essentially viewing the CLR as a way to do solve the problem of having to use a particular programming language because of the available libraries. The CLR basically allows you to create a single CLR library and then use it in any programming language that can interface with the CLR. There are some considerations to take into account. For instance, Microsoft may try to patent certain parts of the standard CLR classes, which could not be included in a Free Software version of it. That's OK, though, since as far as we're concerned, having a complete version of the CLR that could allow cross platform development is just an added bonus. If it works out that we can run ".NET-enabled" programs, great, but there's no reason to lose sleep over it. From witter at wpr.org Fri Feb 22 09:20:08 2002 From: witter at wpr.org (TODD WITTER) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:20:08 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] (Fwd) Demudi Programers in the Twin Cities Message-ID: <3C760D47.13430.C42B1@localhost> This came from the Demudi mailing list. Demudi is the Debian Music Distribution project. Just thought I'd pass it on to anyone who may be interested. Todd Witter http://www.demudi.org ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Christopher Howard" To: Subject: [Demudi-user] Demudi Programers in the Twin Cities Send reply to: demudi-user at demudi.org , , Date sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 05:19:50 -0600 [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] We are looking for programmers in the Twin Cities area who would like to help set up computers to do audio editing. The computers will be donated, so they may all be different. (know any one who will donate?) The idea is to create a set of audio CD's that teach a language with the use of fables, for each language in the Twin Cities. The whole process will also help build friendships across cultural boundaries. The CD set would start off with something like greetings and counting from 1 to 10, then cut out into a few minutes of fable. Then more words and phrases, then fable again, back and forth and so on. After an English-as-a-first-language person listens a dozen times the fables start to make sense. I'd like the fables to be really good audio drama, with sound affects and ethnic music, exposing the listener to a culture, not just teaching a language. We are currently organizing potlucks over at the Walker Church (Saturday March 9th and 23rd 11:30am to 1:30pm {maybe it should be an hour longer, the second and fourth Saturdays of every month}), to gather the people together to make it happen. The CD's will be published under the OpenMusic License so they can be copied and redistributed by any one. Every library in the area will get a set or two of each. Using Free Software is much preferable in this project because there will be multiple language groups working in parallel and it will be very much publicized. We don't want any bad scenes happening over commercial software, plus it just fits in with the idea. Also we would like to know the minimum amount of computer to ask for while seeking donations. The machines will be dedicated to the task of working on a two or four CD set, and they may have to be shared by a few language groups (more than one set at a time). I figure 200mhz with 64mb, a Linux compatible sound card, a CD burner, and at least an 8GB hard drive (can we put more than one sound card in one machine?). We'll need a good mike for each. We are also looking for people who have experience in creating radio drama. It will be a fun project, and it may last a couple years. Anyone interested? _______________________________________________ Demudi-user mailing list Demudi-user at demudi.org http://iuamtg.upf.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/demudi-user ------- End of forwarded message ------- Todd Witter Producer -- "Michael Feldman's Whad'Ya Know?" 821 University Avenue Madison, WI 53706 witter at wpr.org (608) 263-9518 http://www.notmuch.com From rferguson at voyager.net Fri Feb 22 08:23:08 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:23:08 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202221525.g1MFPHv24007@mail1.mx.voyager.net> On Friday 22 February 2002 12:57 am, you wrote: > What exactly is in inittab?? ?I never messed with it. > (It's ok if you call me a newbie, with a question like that...) :\ A few more notes. Inittab does a few other things not mentioned in some of the answes you got. /etc/inittab not only controls run levels, but sets up your virtual consoles as well. If you havn't used ctr-alt-F# keys to switch between virtual consoles yet, give it a shot. By default RH puts in six command line virtual consoles. and uses 7 for X. This is set in the section that looks like this: # Run gettys in standard runlevels 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty1 2:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty2 3:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty3 4:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty4 5:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty5 6:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty6 Feel free to hash some of those entries out if you don't want' all those virtual consoles. X will just take the first open vc. So if you hash out 4, 5 & 6, X will start on VC4. The inittab can also house special stuff to automatically turn the machine off when it receives a "powers almost all gone" signal from a ups or something as well. Since your new, it's worthwile to take a closer look at the following portion too. # Default runlevel. The runlevels used by RHS are: # 0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # 1 - Single user mode # 2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have networking) # 3 - Full multiuser mode # 4 - unused # 5 - X11 # 6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # id:3:initdefault: # System initialization. si::sysinit:/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit l0:0:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 0 l1:1:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 1 l2:2:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 2 l3:3:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 3 l4:4:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 4 l5:5:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 5 l6:6:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 6 Ok. We already know what the initdefault line does. It sets your initial runlevel when you boot the machine. The run levels are defined via association to directories, amost completely named in the following section. "/etc/rc.d/rc 0" in the file relates to the directory "/etc/rc.d/rc0.d" You may also find that you you have /etc/rc0.d as well. When there is more than one path to these rc#.d directories, it's just a case of symbolic links. Now lets follow init by looking at one of the directories. Here is the partial output from an `ls -l /etc/rc.d/rc3.d` lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Nov 23 04:22 K50snmpd -> ../init.d/snmpd lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Jan 26 22:50 S14nfslock -> ../init.d/nfslock lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Nov 23 04:16 S17keytable -> ../init.d/keytable What we have is a bunch of symbolic links in each /etc/rc.d/rc#.d directory that start with either S for Start, or K for Kill and a number to specify the order in which to do the start or kill. The links point to start scripts in /etc/rc.d/init.d/ There is one script for each service, including one for X Which won't be turned on in init level three. You can manually turn services off and on by using the scripts in /etc/rc.d/init.d/. If you run them with no arguments, they give you several flags to show what options they'll take. For instance: [raymond at a7v raymond 0]$/etc/rc.d/init.d/network Usage: /etc/rc.d/init.d/network {start|stop|restart|reload|status|probe} Ok, try a `/etc/rc.d/init.d/network stop.` Now I've gone and had you brake your networking. : P. You should be able to figure out how to fix it though. One more interesting thing about these rc#.d directories is that if you start a symlink name with a lower case letter inittab will skip over it an do nothing. So you can disable services at startup by doing something like the following. `mv S14nfslock s14nfslock` in each of the rc#.d directories that show the service started and for good measure, you can do a `mv K14nfslock k14nfslock ` in the appropriate directories. Probably rc0.d and rc1.d. (0 is halt, and 1 is single user mode, which is a minimal mainitenance mode kind of like safe mode in windoze. There are all kinds of nice things that will manage turning these things on and off for you in happy little interface, I prefer webmin myself, but it's good to know how it works. One special service that you should know more about it inetd and it's contemporary offshoot xinetd which is just a next generation inetd. If you are running inetd, there will be a bunch of lines in a file marked /etc/inetd.conf for variouse services, most of which should be hashed out with a '#' sighn. Those that are not hashed out correspond to services that are started and managed from inetd. Xinetd uses a similar idea, but uses either /etc/xinetd.conf or /etc/xinetd.conf and /etc/xinetd.d/*. Basically the latter setup contains defaults and an entry in /etc/xinetd.conf that saise to include all the files in /etc/xinetd.d/ when starting the service. Then each service has it's own file in /etc/xinetd.d that tells the system how to handle it. The main thing to look for when managing these files is entries like "disable = yes" . You can add this line to each service specific file if it doesn't exist. Actually, if it doesn't have the entry it uses the default set in /etc/xinetd.d. By toggling this entry from yes to no you turn the service on and off. Now that you know more about how the system starts and manages various services, I would take a look at what you can turn off. This will help you secure the system. There are several good resources on line about securing a linux box and eliminating services that you don't need. Just don't turn off ipchain or ipfilter. These are firewall services. Anyway... to all the not new people on the list, sorry for the long and elementry dissertation. I forgot how much stuff goes into this and expected to write a quick little response. From witter at wpr.org Fri Feb 22 09:34:12 2002 From: witter at wpr.org (TODD WITTER) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:34:12 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers Message-ID: <3C761094.26699.192557@localhost> If KDE and Gnome were my only two choices, I'd probably go with KDE. Why? Well, it's just more comfortable for me. I didn't like it for quite some time (back in the 1.x days) but 2.2.2 is smooth and comfy. Gnome still feels really puffy and clumsy. BUT... those aren't my only two choices. I use IceWM ALOT! It's so fast, so responsive, and handles Gnome and KDE apps quite nicely. When I'm looking for a clean interface, it's either WindowMaker, Blackbox, or my new favorite, Fluxbox. Fluxbox is like Blackbox, but even more configurable and can adopt kde preferences. Try it out... very nice. http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/ So, for now, it's Fluxbox... it's so beautiful. Overall, I stay away from resource hogs like Gnome and KDE. I just use their apps in other environments. Todd Witter On 21 Feb 2002, at 23:52, Steve Blair wrote: > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window > managers does everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was > using gnome under turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, > and it seemed quite comfortable. > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to > know what's available when I've finished the install. :) > > --Steve - The average chocolate bar has 8 insects' legs in it. - The average human eats 8 spiders in their lifetime at night. From dave at weccusa.org Fri Feb 22 09:27:21 2002 From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski) Date: 22 Feb 2002 09:27:21 -0600 Subject: Gnome and .NET (was: Re: [Madlug] Window Managers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014391642.17213.24.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Actually I'm not so sure how much out of context it was. I followed the whole thing on LT also and I've read Miguel's reply to Stallman but I'm still not 100% sure where Miguel is going with this. He talks about in 3 yrs. using .NET API's to run Mono code. I'm not comfortable with that and I don't think a lot of Gnomers are also. .NET is really using SOAP with integrated development libraries to encapsulate RPC calls. Using C# to wrap around other programming languages to call .NET API's (usually creating SOAP requests) to enable distributed computing. Moving away from the desktop and to the "network is the computer" that SUN started about 3 yrs. ago. .NET is actually M$ trying to gain control of your entire computing experience. Use Passport to authenticate for everything and once they get their subscription model working they'll have a Office.NET server listening for SOAP requests to allow you to use your version of rented Office to open a document stored on your machine. What a joke. Break the cycle. Use Linux. On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 08:57, Timm Murray wrote: > > I'll cast a vote for KDE. I find it to be more functional than Gnome. Gnome > > has fallen behind, and now there talking about turning proprietary and > > embracing .NET. > > Err, no, that was a quote taken out of context. First of all, the whole .NET concept is > buried in a bizzare blur of marketing and techincal details to the point where nobody > really knows what .NET is. However, portions of the whole ".NET" mess, such as the C# > language and the CLR concept, are what Miguel likes so much (as he explained in his > reply: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-02-06-011-20-OP-GN-MS). > > Though the C# and CLR standards may be controlled by Microsoft, there is nothing > stoping someone (like Miguel) from making a Free Software version of the standards. > Miguel is essentially viewing the CLR as a way to do solve the problem of having to use a > particular programming language because of the available libraries. The CLR basically > allows you to create a single CLR library and then use it in any programming language > that can interface with the CLR. > > There are some considerations to take into account. For instance, Microsoft may try to > patent certain parts of the standard CLR classes, which could not be included in a Free > Software version of it. That's OK, though, since as far as we're concerned, having a > complete version of the CLR that could allow cross platform development is just an > added bonus. If it works out that we can run ".NET-enabled" programs, great, but > there's no reason to lose sleep over it. > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE Systems Administrator http://www.weccusa.org http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com From rferguson at voyager.net Fri Feb 22 08:42:10 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:42:10 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* In-Reply-To: <20020222134158.GA25179@strider> References: <20020222134158.GA25179@strider> Message-ID: <200202221544.g1MFiYC09423@mail2.mx.voyager.net> On Friday 22 February 2002 08:41 am, you wrote: > On 02/22/02, Steve Blair wrote: > > >> Gnome, Emacs vs. vi, Perl vs. Python, deb. vs. rpm ... well, we'll > > > > I write my own editors, that way I know all the commands! > > What? No gzipped tarballs??? *gasp!* > > Real "men" start writing their code like this: > > % cat >spiffyeditor.tar.bz2 > > :-) Jesse No no no.... Sissys. Real men don't use an editor at all. Just do it right the first time. [raymond at a7v raymond 0]$cat > mycode << EOF And when you get really good. [raymond at a7v raymond 0]$cat > mycode << EOF && chmod 755 mycode && ./mycode From carder at cae.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 10:00:47 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:00:47 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* In-Reply-To: ; from hardburn@runbox.com on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:43:58PM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20020222100047.C7161@cae.wisc.edu> Thus spake Timm Murray (hardburn at runbox.com): > > Real "men" start writing their code like this: > > > > % cat >spiffyeditor.tar.bz2 > > Real Programmers do a "dd if=/dev/random" and hope for the best. Well, if it's truely random, your program should be in there somewhere.... I think, for the sake of this argument, cat and shell redirection is bloatware. Make "dd of=helloworld.c" your default shell and program away! -Dale From rferguson at voyager.net Fri Feb 22 09:02:30 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:02:30 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1014388666.17213.9.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> References: <200202221423.g1MEN6q58046@mail3.mx.voyager.net> <1014388666.17213.9.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Message-ID: <200202221604.g1MG4ev41560@mail1.mx.voyager.net> On Friday 22 February 2002 09:37 am, you wrote: > 3) ?Galeon, Galeon, Galeon. I agree. Galeon is the first browser to beat IE in a long time. Not only will tab browsing help you to work smarter and more efficiently. It's been shown in clinical trials that using Galeon can increase a mans sexual potency by up to 35%. > 4) Examples of how KDE is more functional please? I could throw blanket > statements around like that but since I don't use KDE I won't. I'd like > some examples so maybe I can explore the differences. They're actually fairly similar. I just prefer KDE, probably because it's what I'm used to. I run into bugs and limitations w/ gnome probably mostly due to inexperience with it. If I took the time to pimp it out, I'm sure it would be just as functional. I just wanted to feed the flames with a bunch of unsubstantiated half truths. Besides, I didn't like that comment about cutting yourself on KDE icons. ; ) I'm still a little surprised at how quick the rebuttals rolled in. -ray. ---------- --The truth of a statement means little, it's how it sounds when you say it that really matters. From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 22 10:19:54 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:19:54 GMT Subject: [Madlug] *Meeting Reminder* Message-ID: > Thus spake Timm Murray (hardburn at runbox.com): > > > Real "men" start writing their code like this: > > > > > > % cat >spiffyeditor.tar.bz2 > > > > Real Programmers do a "dd if=/dev/random" and hope for the best. > > Well, if it's truely random, your program should be in there > somewhere.... If we ask nicely, we could probably get Seti at home to do a project like this. Tell them you're looking for alien messages in your "random" numbers, but you'll settle for a useable version of Windows. From hardburn at runbox.com Fri Feb 22 10:21:49 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:21:49 GMT Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers Message-ID: > On Friday 22 February 2002 09:37 am, you wrote: > > 3) ?Galeon, Galeon, Galeon. > > I agree. Galeon is the first browser to beat IE in a long time. Not only > will tab browsing help you to work smarter and more efficiently. It's been > shown in clinical trials that using Galeon can increase a mans sexual potency > by up to 35%. w00t! Oh wait, what's 35% of 0? From carder at cae.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 10:39:03 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:39:03 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: ; from funkymanatee@hotmail.com on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 11:52:04PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020222103903.D7161@cae.wisc.edu> Thus spake Steve Blair (funkymanatee at hotmail.com): > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does > everyone like with few quick answers as to why? About 2 years ago i switched everything to windowmaker. easy to configure, was easy to compile, runs on solaris, and wasn't CDE. I also have the exact same desktop setup on the home desktop (linux) work desktop (solaris) and work laptop (linux), all done by rsync and some clever general and host-specific .cshrc files. In general the main feature I want of a windowmanager is no notion of icons cluttering a "desktop", multiple workspaces, manual window placement, sloppy-mouse autoraise, alt+mouse L moves a window, alt+ mouse R resizes it. Sawfish comes as a runner up if I were to look around again. Some people have crashy issues with wmaker. Every once and a while I think I want a file manager, but never found one that was decent outside of a whole darn desktop suite. I would entertain suggestions. I rarely use gui tools. -Dale From tinberg at securepipe.com Fri Feb 22 14:56:05 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:56:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <20020222103903.D7161@cae.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Dale W. Carder wrote: > Sawfish comes as a runner up if I were to look around again. Some > people have crashy issues with wmaker. I'm a big fan of Blackbox myself. It's fast, uses very little screen real-estate and simple. I also have it patch to accept KDE systray apps (it already understands WMDock apps). I actually run it under KDE w/o kdesktop or kicker. It seems to do everything you want, and there are good addons like bbpager, bbkeys and bbconf. http://sourceforge.net/projects/blackboxwm/ http://bbkeys.sourceforge.net/ http://bbconf.sourceforge.net/ > Every once and a while I think I want a file manager, but never > found one that was decent outside of a whole darn desktop suite. > I would entertain suggestions. I rarely use gui tools. I think the KDE filemanager is pretty decent, but for simplicity and speed, nothing beats ROX-Filer. http://rox.sourceforge.net/ -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . "The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your hands and hoping when a rock or a club will do." -- McCloctnik the Lucid From johnl at cs.wisc.edu Fri Feb 22 15:55:58 2002 From: johnl at cs.wisc.edu (J David Lee) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:55:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've spent a good deal of time looking at window managers, and I think I've tried just about every one out there. The things that are important to me are an uncluttered and easy to use interface, virtual desktops, and xinerama support. So far I haven't found the perfect manager, but I do like vtwm and windowmaker. -- J. David Lee johnl at cs.wisc.edu 720 E Gorham St #101 Madison, WI 53703 From snowfall at mailbag.com Sat Feb 23 00:32:59 2002 From: snowfall at mailbag.com (snowfall) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:32:59 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <3C765B34.4000905@clotho.com> References: <3C765B34.4000905@clotho.com> Message-ID: <02022300325900.00709@localhost.localdomain> > I'm a minimalist and generally prefer fvwm2 without KDE or Gnome. .. I've heard good > things about IceWM from a fellow minimalist . . . Current favorite is Blackbox here, which is about as minimalist as you can get. I used IceWM before this and also liked it -- I put a clock and maybe a moon phase thing on it for fun, but that was about it. I like to keep no icons on the desktop at all. fvwm2 is good too, but the default setup usually has so much stuff on the cascading menus it's worth the time to prune them a bit. MP From will at yogurt66.org Fri Feb 22 23:45:12 2002 From: will at yogurt66.org (Will Burn) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:45:12 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Re: window managers References: Message-ID: <3C772C68.1080808@yogurt66.org> My vote goes for WindowMaker, light, easy to configure and maintain. I strongly recommend trying it at least once. Personally I find it more stable and responsive than most other WindowManagers I have used. Will > I don't really want to start a holy war here, but what window managers does > everyone like with few quick answers as to why? I was using gnome under > turbolinux, with a smattering of K applications, and it seemed quite > comfortable. > > Since I'll be upgrading to some spiffy-fresh distro, I'd like to know what's > available when I've finished the install. > From richardaries at hotmail.com Sat Feb 23 08:25:27 2002 From: richardaries at hotmail.com (Richard Aries) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:25:27 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Marketing the New Gay Linux 1.0 - I can see the potential now! Message-ID: Aquarium discovers two 'gay' penguins By Beth Shapiro, 365Gay.com SUMMARY: Officials at the New York Aquarium finally realize that the most dedicated couple in the penguin enclosure is a pair of males. Wendell and Cass would be more comfortable in a Greenwich Village one bedroom apartment than their current home at the New York Aquarium. The male penguins, each about 14 years old, can't get enough of each other. The couple has been together for the past eight years, and the two have sex with each other whenever they can, which is often. Presumably penguins can tell the guys from the gals, but aquarium officials apparently can't. For years they thought the pair was one of each. The truth didn't come out until aquarium staff carried out a blood test. Angie Pelekedis, a spokeswoman for the aquarium on Coney Island, said: "They're one of the most dedicated couples in the penguin enclosure." Penguin keeper Stephanie Mitchell added: "I was only seeing one mate with the other, but then one of the other keepers saw it happen the other way round so we did a blood test that proved they were both male. "Cass tends to be a rather aggressive bird. Wendell is very nervous; always has been. He's on edge all the time. They're currently in a dispute with another couple over their nest. It seems to be one of the most desirable places in the penguin enclosure." _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From shoemakerted at yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 12:28:30 2002 From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:28:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1014388666.17213.9.camel@opiate.weccusa.org> Message-ID: <20020223182830.97174.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> Which version of KDE are you referring to? It has probably evolved since you first found it. Someone (Aaron?) wrote: > KDE is really ugly. > I mean > WOW, that is one ugly user interface. That thing NEEDS native > anti-aliasing just so that I won't get CUT on its ICONS! ===== Ted Shoemaker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com Sun Feb 24 10:41:07 2002 From: SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com (SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:41:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Free "computers" Message-ID: <613258.1014568867672.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02> I don't know how much computer is left in them. I have two old P90 boxes, one has a motherboard, sound card, and video card, and memory; The other has the same plus a modem. There's one 2 gb drive, an old CD rom and a floppy 3.5" drive. There's a canon printer. I don't know if any of it works. (I'm pretty sure that the larger P90 does, but am not sure about the other). If anyone wants it, I drive into madison every weekday, and can drop it off. Send me an email with your phone number and we'll arrange it. I need to hear by Wednesday, because that's trash day, and anything that isn't claimed will go to the landfill (or, if anyone knows where to bring computers to be recycled, I'll take it there). -Scott Rassbach [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD) _Letters_to_ Lucilius_, circa 63-65 A.D. ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From nculwell at pyro.net Sun Feb 24 12:02:08 2002 From: nculwell at pyro.net (Nate C-K) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:02:08 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Window Managers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.20020224115324.00958430@pyro.net> At 06:42 AM 02/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: >On Friday 22 February 2002 09:37 am, you wrote: >> 3) Galeon, Galeon, Galeon. > >I agree. Galeon is the first browser to beat IE in a long time. Not only >will tab browsing help you to work smarter and more efficiently. It's been >shown in clinical trials that using Galeon can increase a mans sexual potency >by up to 35%. Actually, Opera completely blows IE out of the water -- tabbed interface, way more configurable, way easier to configure, easy to manage and/or delete cached files, customized handling of surreptitious cookies (allows you to reject evil illegal cookies). Let's not forget mouse gestures on Windows, the greatest browser feature of all time. The only real downside that I've noticed is poorer Javascript handling, but I usually turn that off anyway. (I once managed to write an infinite loop with a dialog box that locked up Opera entirely, so I had to kill it. It wasn't an infinite loop in other browsers, mind you, just in Opera due to quirky event handling.) I wonder if IE will ever catch up, actually. Of course, Opera isn't any more free than IE, but at least it's cross-platform. From nculwell at pyro.net Sun Feb 24 12:15:56 2002 From: nculwell at pyro.net (Nate C-K) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:15:56 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] PSDoom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.20020224120929.00935ed0@pyro.net> This is hilarious, and very clever, article by Dennis Chao at the University of New Mexico: http://www.cs.unm.edu/%7Edlchao/flake/doom/chi/chi.html He's modified Doom so that the demons running around represent different processes, and when you one you kill that process. (Actually, it looks like Doom 2 to me, but I could be mistaken, as it's been a while since I played.) Here's a quote from the intro: "There is a large gap between how we think about performing actions on our computers and how we actually perform them. For example, people who need to manage processes on a UNIX system think about the ``daemons'' spawning children that may need to be ``killed'' or ``blown away.'' This violent language suggests a metaphor for process management: a first-person shooter game. Each process can be represented as a monster, and interacting with the monsters would affect the corresponding processes. The implementation of this metaphor and the great interest it generated reveal interesting insights about our computers and our society." And, later on: "PSDoom presents an unusual perspective on our interactions with computer programs. It is unique in that it allows the processes to fight each other and the user. Thinking of our computing environments as being adversarial can be enlightening. Processes are competing for machine resources, such as memory and CPU time, and PSDoom makes this competition explicit. The user may want to kill processes to free needed resources, so from the process's perspective, the user may be its greatest threat. The processes are given the ability to shoot back and defend themselves." From wa4chq at qsl.net Sun Feb 24 15:51:09 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (neil tanner) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:51:09 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] stuck konsole Message-ID: <200202242150.QAA15578@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Greetings- I am using KDE with RH 7.2. On my desktop, I have a konsole that I cannot get rid of. When I try to close it, it says "You have open sessions (besides the current one). These will be killed if you continue. Are you sure you want to quit?". I hit yes and the Konsole stays there. At the bottom it shows there are two shells plus the arrow at the far right, when clicked says there is Midnight Commander and Linux Console. How can I get rid of this? Thanks- Neil T. -- Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP rules-- http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq From wa4chq at qsl.net Sun Feb 24 16:19:37 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (neil tanner) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:19:37 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] hovering Icons Message-ID: <200202242218.RAA06549@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Greeting- One other weird thing that is happening with my desktop when I first logon is there are a couple of hovering icons (one then it changes to another) that follow my cursor. One looks like KDE media player and the other is kpaint. I am not using either one of the applications and they stick around at logon for about 30 seconds then go away. Any ideas? thanks- Neil T. -- Arachne, DOS, Linux and QRP rules-- http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq From rferguson at voyager.net Sun Feb 24 21:54:29 2002 From: rferguson at voyager.net (Ray Ferguson) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:54:29 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] hovering Icons In-Reply-To: <200202242218.RAA06549@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> References: <200202242218.RAA06549@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Message-ID: <200202250359.g1P3xx0f008368@berbee.com> On Sunday 24 February 2002 04:19 pm, you wrote: > Greeting- > One other weird thing that is happening with my desktop when I first logon > is there are a couple of hovering icons (one then it changes to another) > that follow my cursor. One looks like KDE media player and the other is > kpaint. I am not using either one of the applications and they stick around > at logon for about 30 seconds then go away. Any ideas? > thanks- > Neil T. Try putting your thumb on the icons and then moving the pointer out from your thumb quickly. You may be able to pull the little icons off of the pointer this way. If that doesn't work, try looking for files and sym links in the ~/.kde/Autostart/ directory that may be the culprit. There is probably a gui tool somewhere to modify the start programs too. If all else fails, modify your kde setting to eliminate the trailing pointer icons globally. I don't remember exactly where the setting is, but I'm sure you'll find it in the "look and feel" section somewhere. -ray. From hardburn at runbox.com Thu Feb 21 21:48:09 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:48:09 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] converting over to command line In-Reply-To: <20020221170841.J13231@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> References: <200202212255.RAA06746@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> <20020221170841.J13231@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 21 February 2002 17:08, you wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 05:56:39PM -0500, neil tanner wrote: > > Hello all- > > I am currently using RH 7.2, and when I installed it, I set it to start > > in the graphix mode. Is there anyway to change this so that when I boot > > up, it will start at the command line? Thanks- > > Edit /etc/inittab, and change the "initdefault" number from 5 to 3. > > i.e.: > id:5:initdefault: > becomes > id:3:initdefault: But be sure to make a backup first! - -- I am NOMAD! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjx1v30ACgkQqpueKcacfLTEBACgzp847Oeg19nz4dCu1U492m7M kBoAn1LCpGwHw36vfjoZx6uqQfj/smEk =+TwS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zietlow at the-rob.com Mon Feb 25 04:02:43 2002 From: zietlow at the-rob.com (Rob Zietlow) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:02:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] hovering Icons In-Reply-To: <200202250359.g1P3xx0f008368@berbee.com> References: <200202250359.g1P3xx0f008368@berbee.com> Message-ID: <2544.216.170.186.70.1014631363.squirrel@www.soho.berbee.com> This is caused by having feedback on, go into the control center, click on look and feel, then I forgot exactly where it is (I don't have a KDE machine by me) and it's in there, I do believe it's feedback or something similar, go through all the options and you'll find it...i think it's in the middle of the list and it's on a "page" with about 3 or 4 check boxes that deal with these little icons and then the other deals with having the application name in your panel as it starts up. I found these highly annoying as well Rob > On Sunday 24 February 2002 04:19 pm, you wrote: >> Greeting- >> One other weird thing that is happening with my desktop when I first >> logon is there are a couple of hovering icons (one then it changes to >> another) that follow my cursor. One looks like KDE media player and >> the other is kpaint. I am not using either one of the applications and >> they stick around at logon for about 30 seconds then go away. Any >> ideas? >> thanks- >> Neil T. > > Try putting your thumb on the icons and then moving the pointer out > from your thumb quickly. You may be able to pull the little icons off > of the pointer this way. > > If that doesn't work, try looking for files and sym links in the > ~/.kde/Autostart/ directory that may be the culprit. There is probably > a gui tool somewhere to modify the start programs too. > > If all else fails, modify your kde setting to eliminate the trailing > pointer icons globally. I don't remember exactly where the setting > is, but I'm sure you'll find it in the "look and feel" section > somewhere. > > -ray. > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From neil at crosslink.net Mon Feb 25 05:35:56 2002 From: neil at crosslink.net (ntan@crosslink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:35:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Madlug] re: stuck and hovering stuff Message-ID: Greetings and many thanks- I don't have the hovering Icons or stuck Konsole anymore. Now about the 'roids....! cheers Neil T. -- From SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com Mon Feb 25 08:58:40 2002 From: SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com (SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:58:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Free computers Message-ID: <1699737.1014649120687.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02> The computers have been spoken for. Thank you. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: "Ray Ferguson" To: madlug at madisonlinux.org Cc: "neil tanner" Date: Sun Feb 24 19:54:29 PST 2002 Subject: Re: [Madlug] hovering Icons >On Sunday 24 February 2002 04:19 pm, you wrote: >> Greeting- >> One other weird thing that is happening with my desktop when I first logon >> is there are a couple of hovering icons (one then it changes to another) >> that follow my cursor. One looks like KDE media player and the other is >> kpaint. I am not using either one of the applications and they stick around >> at logon for about 30 seconds then go away. Any ideas? >> thanks- >> Neil T. > >Try putting your thumb on the icons and then moving the pointer out from your >thumb quickly. You may be able to pull the little icons off of the pointer >this way. > >If that doesn't work, try looking for files and sym links in the >~/.kde/Autostart/ directory that may be the culprit. There is probably a gui >tool somewhere to modify the start programs too. > >If all else fails, modify your kde setting to eliminate the trailing pointer >icons globally. I don't remember exactly where the setting is, but I'm sure >you'll find it in the "look and feel" section somewhere. > >-ray. >_______________________________________________ >Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org >http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD) _Letters_to_ Lucilius_, circa 63-65 A.D. ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From shoemakerted at yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 18:37:35 2002 From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:37:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Anybody want to sell a video card? Message-ID: <20020226003735.34287.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Anybody want to sell a video card? I'm looking for one with these features: * linux-friendly * AGP * 16 MB or more of video RAM * affordable ===== Ted Shoemaker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From neil at crosslink.net Mon Feb 25 20:42:23 2002 From: neil at crosslink.net (ntan@crosslink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Madlug] "top" commmand Message-ID: Greetings- How can I see all the stuff that "top" displays? I looked at the man files but I didn't really see anything about being able to "scroll" down the list of stuff.... Cheers- Neil T -- From proot at cs.und.edu Mon Feb 25 20:52:55 2002 From: proot at cs.und.edu (Root) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:52:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] "top" commmand In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ps aux , will show you every thing running on your system. man the ps command for more features you can ps aux | grep "username" to find only the stuff your running Phill Root On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, wrote: > Greetings- > How can I see all the stuff that "top" displays? I looked at the man > files but I didn't really see anything about being able to "scroll" down > the list of stuff.... > Cheers- > Neil T > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug > From neil at crosslink.net Mon Feb 25 21:13:26 2002 From: neil at crosslink.net (ntan@crosslink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:13:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Madlug] re: top & feeling stupid Message-ID: Greetings- I guess it would help if I enabled the scroll bar instead of hiding it.... I see some things running but if I am not using them, why are they shown? Would an improper shutdown cause it? Thanks and sorry about the stupid question about scrolling Neil T. -- From jmjaco at charter.net Mon Feb 25 21:12:06 2002 From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:12:06 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] "top" commmand In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020226031206.GA2731@strider> On 02/25/02, wrote: > Greetings- > How can I see all the stuff that "top" displays? I looked at the man > files but I didn't really see anything about being able to "scroll" down > the list of stuff.... I don't think you can. What I do is change the sort order or the items included. For example, "M" makes it sort by memory usage -- at least one perception of it. Try "?" to see what other things you can do. ps is also good as someone else mentioned, but it's not the kind of thing you can leave running and glance at every now and then. Hmmm. Maybe top got its name because you can only view the top few items... Jesse -- Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. http://www.grace-els.org From hardburn at runbox.com Mon Feb 25 22:15:05 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:15:05 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] PCMCIA problems Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Recently, one of my freinds wanted to try out GNU/Linux on a laptop. He needs it for doing security stuff at his job, so he needs network access on it. I brought him my copy of Debian, installed it and everything worked great except for the PCMCIA network card. (Note: I had never touched PCMCIA before now). After looking over some of the PCMCIA documentation, I checked the current modules that were loaded. All three core modules were loaded. The specific network card being used (a Xircom card that uses the tuplip_cs module) was listed under /etc/pcmcia/config. There were no "beeps" from the PC speaker, as is specified under the docs (and I know the PC speaker worked because I was using one of those facist versions of vi that likes to beep when you do something non-standard). Nothing showed up under the syslog, or /proc/bus/pccard, nor did any of the needed modules automatically load. To be honest, I'm kinda used to these Debian packages Just Working. Any ideas? - -- You can bring any calculator you like to the midterm, as long as it doesn't dim the lights when you turn it on --Hepler, Systems Design 182 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjx7C80ACgkQqpueKcacfLSV3wCgzZt8CyhtxUmjwPe5/VwVa7t1 aREAnjQ+u7qpESjph41gwq4CDejE/cY+ =KVT0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From funkymanatee at hotmail.com Tue Feb 26 12:49:10 2002 From: funkymanatee at hotmail.com (Steve Blair) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:49:10 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] "top" commmand Message-ID: There are some command line options to print the whole list, then you can output it to a file. Works well if you need to see what's running from within a C program. The command line would look like this... b is for batch d is for number of displays (updates) top -b -d1 This would display all running processes to the terminal (which you can Shift-Pgup/Pgdown through) top -b -d1 > out.txt Output to a text file also, the man page suggests that since the first page doesn't have info about percentages of cpu use, you can get these by displaying two screens. (the second screen will contain this info) top -b -d2 > out.txt Very useful command! --Steve >How can I see all the stuff that "top" displays? I looked at the man >files but I didn't really see anything about being able to "scroll" down >the list of stuff.... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From srivasta at cae.wisc.edu Tue Feb 26 12:57:03 2002 From: srivasta at cae.wisc.edu (Ranjan Srivastava) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:57:03 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] PCMCIA problems References: Message-ID: <3C7BDA7F.5050208@cae.wisc.edu> Timm Murray wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Recently, one of my freinds wanted to try out GNU/Linux on a laptop. He >needs it for doing security stuff at his job, so he needs network access on >it. I brought him my copy of Debian, installed it and everything worked >great except for the PCMCIA network card. (Note: I had never touched PCMCIA >before now). > >After looking over some of the PCMCIA documentation, I checked the current >modules that were loaded. All three core modules were loaded. The specific >network card being used (a Xircom card that uses the tuplip_cs module) was >listed under /etc/pcmcia/config. There were no "beeps" from the PC speaker, >as is specified under the docs (and I know the PC speaker worked because I >was using one of those facist versions of vi that likes to beep when you do >something non-standard). Nothing showed up under the syslog, or >/proc/bus/pccard, nor did any of the needed modules automatically load. > >To be honest, I'm kinda used to these Debian packages Just Working. Any >ideas? > What version of Debian are you using? Potato, Woody, or Unstable? Recently the PCMCIA packages that got into Woody "broke" my Xircom network card. However, by re-installing the potato pcmcia packages, I got back up and running without a problem. I then put a hold on those packages for the time being so that I won't accidentally "upgrade" them. -- Ranjan From brentt at ill-logic.org Tue Feb 26 13:14:57 2002 From: brentt at ill-logic.org (Brent Theisen) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:14:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down Message-ID: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org> Anyone know whats up with UW CS's dept. mirror server at mirror.cs.wisc.edu? There's an unusual amount of interest in Linux where I work and I noticed, while trying to download some ISO's from their server, that the DNS name mirror.cs.wisc.edu is apparently invalid. $ host mirror.cs.wisc.edu ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached Brent From carder at cae.wisc.edu Tue Feb 26 13:41:17 2002 From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:41:17 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down In-Reply-To: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org>; from brentt@ill-logic.org on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:14:57PM -0600 References: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org> Message-ID: <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu> I have had a jaded history with that mirror too, and have since given up on it. These days I use one in michigan i think (for debian packages). -Dale Thus spake Brent Theisen (brentt at ill-logic.org): > Anyone know whats up with UW CS's dept. mirror server at mirror.cs.wisc.edu? > There's an unusual amount of interest in Linux where I work and I noticed, > while trying to download some ISO's from their server, that the DNS name > mirror.cs.wisc.edu is apparently invalid. > > $ host mirror.cs.wisc.edu > ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached > > Brent > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From willb at cs.wisc.edu Tue Feb 26 13:51:22 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:51:22 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down In-Reply-To: <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu>; from carder@cae.wisc.edu on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:41:17PM -0600 References: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org> <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <20020226135122.D1813@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:41:17PM -0600, Dale W. Carder wrote: > I have had a jaded history with that mirror too, and have since > given up on it. These days I use one in michigan i think (for > debian packages). linux.eecs.umich.edu is usually faster; in any case, it's not bandwidth-throttled. With that said, though, if you have a login on a CS department machine, you can access the mirror via scp: some-host.cs.wisc.edu:/p/mirror/pub That's what I use from home. :-) wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From bates at stat.wisc.edu Tue Feb 26 14:03:38 2002 From: bates at stat.wisc.edu (Douglas Bates) Date: 26 Feb 2002 14:03:38 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down In-Reply-To: <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu> References: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org> <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <6rlmdgnh7p.fsf@franz.stat.wisc.edu> "Dale W. Carder" writes: > I have had a jaded history with that mirror too, and have since > given up on it. These days I use one in michigan i think (for > debian packages). I too ended up abandoning the mirror.cs.wisc.edu site. I started using the Michigan site then found out about the apt-sources function that pings many, many different archives and checks how fast the response is. The archives I ended up using are at ftp://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/os/debian/ and ftp://ftp.digex.net/debian/ From hardburn at runbox.com Tue Feb 26 17:34:00 2002 From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:34:00 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] PCMCIA problems In-Reply-To: <3C7BDA7F.5050208@cae.wisc.edu> References: <3C7BDA7F.5050208@cae.wisc.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 <> > What version of Debian are you using? Potato, Woody, or Unstable? 2.2r2 (because that's what I have a CD of). - -- Real computer scientists don't program in assembler. They don't write in anything less portable than a number two pencil. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjx8G20ACgkQqpueKcacfLTgCgCePQZS57QF6J/IyiCsBdEm3L7p 2PIAoI9qghTl163tLotsNErCvy8FR20e =5P8c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pahowe at students.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 02:39:57 2002 From: pahowe at students.wisc.edu (paul howe) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 02:39:57 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down In-Reply-To: <6rlmdgnh7p.fsf@franz.stat.wisc.edu> References: <1014750897.3c7bdeb18ab14@www.ill-logic.org> <20020226134117.K21827@cae.wisc.edu> <6rlmdgnh7p.fsf@franz.stat.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <20020227023957.1acdeded.pahowe@students.wisc.edu> apt-get install netselect then netselect-apt distribution for example, in my case 'netselect-apt unstable' creates a sources.list file w/ the fastest mirror. -paul On 26 Feb 2002 14:03:38 -0600 Douglas Bates wrote: > "Dale W. Carder" > writes: > > > I have had a jaded history > > with that mirror too, and have > > since given up on it. These > > days I use one in michigan i > > think (for debian packages). > > I too ended up abandoning the > mirror.cs.wisc.edu site. I > started using the Michigan site > then found out about the > apt-sources function that pings > many, many different archives > and checks how fast the response > is. The archives I ended up > using are at > ftp://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/os/debian/ > and > ftp://ftp.digex.net/debian/ > _______________________________ > ________________ Madlug mailing > list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug From neil at crosslink.net Wed Feb 27 06:00:09 2002 From: neil at crosslink.net (ntan@crosslink.net) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:00:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Madlug] ImageMagick Message-ID: Greetings- I am using KDE/RH7.2 and see that ImageMagick is listed under the graphics menu. But when I click on it, nothing happens-- I checked the gnorpm package program to see if it was installed and it said it was with no problems....hmmmm then why doesn't it work? thanks Neil T. -- From chris at clotho.com Wed Feb 27 08:21:29 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:21:29 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] ImageMagick References: Message-ID: <3C7CEB69.1070202@clotho.com> Maybe I'm out of date, but the ImageMagick I'm familiar with has no GUI components. Instead, it is a collection of libraries and command line tools. In particular the lamely-named "convert" command lets you alter just about any image format to just about any other image format, tweaking along the way. It's kind of like command-line xv or gimp. :-) In addition, ImageMagick has useful libraries (with hooks for Perl, etc) for on-the-fly image creation. As to why it would be on the KDE menu, I have no idea. Chris wrote: > Greetings- > I am using KDE/RH7.2 and see that ImageMagick is listed under the graphics > menu. But when I click on it, nothing happens-- I checked the gnorpm > package program to see if it > was installed and it said it was with no problems....hmmmm then why > doesn't it work? > thanks > Neil T. > > From willb at cs.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 11:36:36 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:36:36 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] Disney, Sen. Hollings again trying to make CS research, Linux illegal Message-ID: <20020227113636.K1813@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> Friends-- I apologize for the mass mailing, but this is a matter of supreme urgency for all of us. I have not included your names in the header of this mail so as to prevent "reply-to-all" from cluttering your inboxes further. Some of you may have received an e-mail I sent out last September 26 about Fritz Hollings' (D-SC) proposed SSSCA bill, which would make federal felonies of the following: home-assembled or imported computers, Linux (and all Free/open-source software), debuggers, and security, watermarking, and systems research. (If you didn't, or would like to read it, please see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/SSSCA-screed.txt) Hollings is again letting Disney soft money do the talking, and the Senate Commerce Committee is meeting tomorrow to discuss government- mandated standards for "digital rights management" in all digital devices. The witness list for the hearing includes no computer scientists, but it does include Michael Eisner (Disney) and Jack Valenti (MPAA). They have and will continue to position draconian controls on all "digital devices" as a necessity to prevent piracy. I do not advocate piracy, so I can sympathize to some degree with their concerns. However, these controls will cause far more harm to legitimate computer users and researchers than they will prevent malicious users from perpetrating acts of piracy. Sens. Kohl and Feingold are not on the commerce committee, but it is imperative that we all let them know what a bad idea government- mandated (or any) DRM in hardware is. Even if you do not vote in the US, they deserve to hear from you, since any legislation in this direction will create a hostile environment for you as a researcher, inhibits international cooperation on systems research, and will eventually cause CS research in this country to stagnate. If you are in Madison, here are some local phone numbers -- please call to register your disgust: (608) 828-1200 Sen. Feingold (608) 264-5338 Sen. Kohl (If not, you can find contact information for your Senators at http://www.senate.gov) Thanks, Will References: US Senate Commerce Committee: http://www.senate.gov/~commerce/members.htm Wired News article on current hearings: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,50702,00.html Wired News article on SSSCA: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46655,00.html Draft SSSCA text (what Hollings and Disney want as a law): http://216.110.42.179/docs/hollings.090701.html Jack Valenti letter to Washington Post, in which he advocates draconian DRM technology: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62085-2002Feb24.html -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From dwieneke at mailbag.com Wed Feb 27 11:44:33 2002 From: dwieneke at mailbag.com (Dave Wieneke) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:44:33 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] FOR THE LOVE OF LUGS References: Message-ID: <000701c1bfb6$6a785a70$5c70400a@cmg.com> ======================================================== RUSSELL PAVLICEK: "The Open Source" InfoWorld.com ======================================================== FOR THE LOVE OF LUGS Posted February 22, 2002 01:01 PM Pacific Time PEOPLE WHO WANT to try using open-source software are sometimes put off by the thought that they will have no place to go when things go wrong. After all, most people know someone who can try to help them if their Windows PC starts acting strangely. But who will help the lonely soul who ventures into the land of open source? Thankfully, the situation is not as bleak as it may appear. Numerous Web sites, mailing lists, and newsgroups exist to give aid to people with problems. And unlike many of the similar structures built around closed-source software, the participants have access to the source code. This means that many more questions can be answered, because far fewer solutions are obscured from view. Sure, some companies will sell you support contracts. But whereas companies survive on such services, individuals interested in exploring open source are less than likely to shell out the funds for such coverage. But the best solution to this quandary is also the least acclaimed. If you need a helping hand, the best place to go is a place where like-minded users gather. In the Linux world, these are known as Linux users groups, or LUGs for short. LUGs provide a great opportunity to make friends and to compare notes. Most LUGs I have been to had attendees who ran the gamut from newbie to expert. Discussions range from the most simple installation questions to debates about design issues in device drivers. Simply tune in to the topics that make sense to you, and you can walk away much richer in knowledge. LUGs generally meet on a regular basis, usually once or more per month. Many of them also have regular "installfests," special meetings where someone can carry in their PC or laptop and leave with a fully functional Linux system installed by members of the LUG. This is usually the simplest way to get Linux up and running on your PC. But you might be saying to yourself, "I am looking to use Linux or BSD in my business. What good will an ad-hoc bunch of hobbyists do me?" The truth is these "hobbyists" will probably do more for you than you can imagine. After all, some members are the developers who actually wrote the code you are using. And if they did not write the code, many of them have used it and explored it to the point of understanding it well. Attending a LUG meeting and explaining your problems can bring you many answers. Often you will get offers of assistance. And you might even find that experienced technical person you have been looking to hire. A few LUG registries exist, and one of the best can be found at http://www.ssc.com/glue . Run by Linux Journal, the Web page is called GLUE (Groups of Linux Users Everywhere). If you want to explore open-source software, and Linux in particular, check out the Web site to find a LUG in your area. What has been your experience with LUGs? Tell us at the InfoWorld Open Source forum at http://www.infoworld.com/os , or e-mail me at pavlicek at linuxprofessionalsolutions.com. From rakocy at cs.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 18:58:27 2002 From: rakocy at cs.wisc.edu (Jonathan) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:58:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down Message-ID: Hi, I and one other at the CSL maintain mirror.cs.wisc.edu. Our mirror has had the up/down stream bandwidth restricted by DoIT. So we set the max number of users to 99 for each mirror. When you get that error, ($ host mirror.cs.wisc.edu ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached) it just means the server is full. As far as Debian is concerned, we had issues with the site we were rsyncing from for sometime. The current version 2.5 should be there and up to date from Sorceforge mirrors. If your not happy with this, I've had very good results from the Chicago mirror. Apparently, there are only 4 hops between us and it. Regards, Jonathan Rakocy From rakocy at cs.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 19:18:18 2002 From: rakocy at cs.wisc.edu (Jonathan) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:18:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down (corrections) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- One correction and additional statement. The debian package I meant to reference is Debian 2.2r5, or potato, not 2.5. Also one can see the network traffic at http://www.cs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/cricket/grapher.cgi and mirror users at http://www.cs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/cricket/grapher.cgi?target=%2Fftp-users%2Fmirrors. mirrors 1 and 2 are the only valid servers now. We will also be mirroring Debian-cd very soon. Hopefully, by next week, we will have that mirror set up and ready for users. Cheers, ~Jonathan --CSL-- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:58:27 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan To: brentt at ill-logic.org Cc: madlug at madisonlinux.org Subject: [Madlug] UW CS Dept's Mirror Down Hi, I and one other at the CSL maintain mirror.cs.wisc.edu. Our mirror has had the up/down stream bandwidth restricted by DoIT. So we set the max number of users to 99 for each mirror. When you get that error, ($ host mirror.cs.wisc.edu ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached) it just means the server is full. As far as Debian is concerned, we had issues with the site we were rsyncing from for sometime. The current version 2.5 should be there and up to date from Sorceforge mirrors. If your not happy with this, I've had very good results from the Chicago mirror. Apparently, there are only 4 hops between us and it. Regards, Jonathan Rakocy From ETucker at chartercom.com Wed Feb 27 19:54:38 2002 From: ETucker at chartercom.com (Tucker, Ernie) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:54:38 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] freebsd Message-ID: <82F3EABC41066244ACC95BFC84E037C10599049D@stl02mexc05.corp.chartercom.com> Need help setting up freebsd on my Dell Latitude LT with a pcmcia network card. Any suggestions??? I bought a card that is supported (Linksys) but I just can not seem to get it to work. "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers." From tinberg at securepipe.com Wed Feb 27 20:19:35 2002 From: tinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:19:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Madlug] PCMCIA problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Timm Murray wrote: > After looking over some of the PCMCIA documentation, I checked the current > modules that were loaded. All three core modules were loaded. The specific > network card being used (a Xircom card that uses the tuplip_cs module) was > listed under /etc/pcmcia/config. There were no "beeps" from the PC speaker, > as is specified under the docs (and I know the PC speaker worked because I > was using one of those facist versions of vi that likes to beep when you do > something non-standard). Nothing showed up under the syslog, or > /proc/bus/pccard, nor did any of the needed modules automatically load. Things to check: - /etc/init.d/pcmcia start (should start cardmgr daemon) - /sbin/lsmod - /sbin/lspci (maybe, if you have a CardBus compat controller) - cat /etc/pcmcia.conf (can edit, or recreate with dpkg-reconfigure) It is possible that you have loaded the wrong module for this PCMCIA chipset. You may wish to visit http://www.linux-laptop.net/ to find out what is required. Note that if you install a 2.4.x kernel the PCMCIA subsystem is significantly different. It took me a while to figure out that the 2.4.x "yenta_socket" driver replaced the i8xxx PCMCIA chipset driver. - /sbin/cardctl status (if PCMCIA modules are properly loaded this _will_ show all the cards that are plugged in. - /sbin/cardctl ident This will show the full identification string and manufacturers ID of the card. On the remote chance that it is incorrectly specified in /etc/pcmcia/config you can change/add an entry using this output as your guide. -- Mark Tinberg Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc. Remember: Wherever you go, there you are! Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1 38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7 Your daily fortune . . . "Yes, I am a real piece of work. One thing we learn at Ulowell is how to flame useless hacking non-EE's like you. I am superior to you in every way by training and expertise in the technical field. Anyone can learn how to hack, but Engineering doesn't come nearly as easily. Actually, I'm not trying to offend all you CS majors out there, but I think EE is one of the hardest majors/grad majors to pass. Fortunately, I am making it." -- "Warrior Diagnostics" (wardiag at sky.COM) "Being both an EE and an asshole at the same time must be a terrible burden for you. This isn't really a flame, just a casual observation. Makes me glad I was a CS major, life is really pleasant for me. Have fun with your chosen mode of existence!" -- Jim Morrison (morrisj at mist.cs.orst.edu) From wa4chq at qsl.net Wed Feb 27 20:40:45 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (Linux and Dos-Arachne User) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:40:45 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] boot problem Message-ID: <200202280239.VAA09972@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Greetings- Got a little problem.....I have RH 7.2 and all has been fine up until a few minutes ago, when I tried to boot up. Instead of getting to the lilo box, it stopped at a prompt that said "localhost login" -- this ain't right....any suggestions as to what I should do? Thanks Neil T. -- This mail was written by user of Arachne, the Ultimate Internet Client -- Arachne V1.66, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ From wa4chq at qsl.net Wed Feb 27 20:46:02 2002 From: wa4chq at qsl.net (Linux and Dos-Arachne User) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:46:02 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] boot problem revised Message-ID: <200202280245.VAA13150@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Greetings again.... I meant to say that I can get to LILo but after booting linux, it goes to the prompt "localhost login"....which is not what I should be seeing... Neil t -- This mail was written by user of Arachne, the Ultimate Internet Client -- Arachne V1.66, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ From willb at cs.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 20:55:16 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:55:16 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] boot problem revised In-Reply-To: <200202280245.VAA13150@lycanthrope.crosslink.net>; from wa4chq@qsl.net on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 09:46:02PM -0500 References: <200202280245.VAA13150@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> Message-ID: <20020227205516.B12268@tux25.cs.wisc.edu> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 09:46:02PM -0500, Linux and Dos-Arachne User wrote: > Greetings again.... > I meant to say that I can get to LILo but after booting linux, it goes > to the prompt "localhost login"....which is not what I should be > seeing... What do you mean? That's where you log in. Are you looking for X? wb -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From richardaries at hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 10:07:02 2002 From: richardaries at hotmail.com (Richard Aries) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Madlug] Job Opening Message-ID: I'm leaving my job at the end of this month as Technology Resources Manager at the State Environmental Leadership Program. While it is not officially posted, I'd like to get the word out now and see if there is anyone interested. The primary skills I believe would be necessary would be web programming and database management and some PC repair. It is mostly a Microsoft environment, but there is room and ample opportunity to promote the open source environment. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From shoemakerted at yahoo.com Thu Feb 28 11:14:18 2002 From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] Re: Disney, Senator again trying to make CS research, Linux illegal Message-ID: <20020228171419.77094.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> Apparently it's still in draft in Sen. Hollings' office, and hasn't actually been introduced to the Senate yet. Here's a copy of the draft: http://cryptome.org/sssca.htm > Fritz Hollings' (D-SC) proposed SSSCA bill would make > federal felonies of the following: home-assembled or > imported computers, Linux (and all Free/open-source software), > debuggers, and security, watermarking, and systems research. > (If you would like to read it, please see > http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/SSSCA-screed.txt ) ------------------- ===== Ted Shoemaker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GM>$ GO d- s:+ a+ C++ L+ W+++ N++ w M+(-) PE PS+(---) Y+ t+ 5++ X+ R-- tv+ b++++ D-- G e++>++++ h r+++ y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com Thu Feb 28 13:09:19 2002 From: SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com (SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:09:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Madlug] A programming quandry Message-ID: <7021349.1014923359931.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02> I'm trying to find an alternate solution to a situation that has occurred at work. We're a mostly microsoft shop, and most of our clients use microsoft. Our clients send us an excel workbook with some data in it. We open the sheet, read the data and put it in a properly formatted text file, and then upload that text file to our AS400. I've written a Visual Basic 6.0 program to deal with converting the attached excel file into a text file, but it's written using the CDO 1.21 object library, which isn't supported in Exchange 2000 and beyond. So, here's my question: What language could I write this little program in to do the conversion from excel to text on a Linux Box? I also need to be able to get messages from and send replys through a MS exchange server (although that might change). Being A VB programmer, I'd like something fairly easy to use, perhaps with a nice IDE. I also know Java, and can find my way around perl with a book and some time. Also, does anyone know of a good 5250 terminal emulator for Linux? Preferably something out of the alpha stage. -Scott [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD) _Letters_to_ Lucilius_, circa 63-65 A.D. -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GC/CS/H/L/P d- s+:(+) a- C++$@>+ ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From willb at cs.wisc.edu Thu Feb 28 13:16:56 2002 From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:16:56 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] A programming quandry In-Reply-To: <7021349.1014923359931.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02>; from SCOTTRASSBACH@go.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 11:09:19AM -0800 References: <7021349.1014923359931.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02> Message-ID: <20020228131656.C12461@cilantro.cs.wisc.edu> If you need to manipulate Microsoft documents, the only real way to go (sorry to say) is via COM. There is a pretty good COM-to-Java bridge called JIntegra, but it is not cheap. There is likely no good way to do this on Linux. (You could use DCOM and have the linux app communicate with a Windows box to do the heavy lifting. :-) On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 11:09:19AM -0800, SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com wrote: > I'm trying to find an alternate solution to a situation that has occurred at work. We're a mostly microsoft shop, and most of our clients use microsoft. Our clients send us an excel workbook with some data in it. We open the sheet, read the data and put it in a properly formatted text file, and then upload that text file to our AS400. > > I've written a Visual Basic 6.0 program to deal with converting the attached excel file into a text file, but it's written using the CDO 1.21 object library, which isn't supported in Exchange 2000 and beyond. > > So, here's my question: > > What language could I write this little program in to do the conversion from excel to text on a Linux Box? I also need to be able to get messages from and send replys through a MS exchange server (although that might change). > > Being A VB programmer, I'd like something fairly easy to use, perhaps with a nice IDE. I also know Java, and can find my way around perl with a book and some time. > > Also, does anyone know of a good 5250 terminal emulator for Linux? Preferably something out of the alpha stage. > > -Scott > [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] > -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD) > _Letters_to_ Lucilius_, circa 63-65 A.D. > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GC/CS/H/L/P d- s+:(+) a- C++$@>+ > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Madlug mailing list - Madlug at madisonlinux.org > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug -- Will Benton | "Die richtige Methode der Philosophie w?re eigentlich willb at acm.org | die: Nichts zu sagen, als was sich sagen l??t...." From chris at clotho.com Thu Feb 28 13:40:21 2002 From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:40:21 -0600 Subject: [Madlug] A programming quandry References: <7021349.1014923359931.JavaMail.SCOTTRASSBACH@gomailjtp02> Message-ID: <3C7E87A5.9020906@clotho.com> SCOTTRASSBACH at go.com wrote: > I'm trying to find an alternate solution to a situation that has occurred at work. We're a mostly microsoft shop, and most of our clients use microsoft. Our clients send us an excel workbook with some data in it. We open the sheet, read the data and put it in a properly formatted text file, and then upload that text file to our AS400. > > I've written a Visual Basic 6.0 program to deal with converting the attached excel file into a text file, but it's written using the CDO 1.21 object library, which isn't supported in Exchange 2000 and beyond. > > So, here's my question: > > What language could I write this little program in to do the conversion from excel to text on a Linux Box? I also need to be able to get messages from and send replys through a MS exchange server (although that might change). > > Being A VB programmer, I'd like something fairly easy to use, perhaps with a nice IDE. I also know Java, and can find my way around perl with a book and some time. > > Also, does anyone know of a good 5250 terminal emulator for Linux? Preferably something out of the alpha stage. > > -Scott The best solution I've found is the Perl module SpreadSheet::ParseExcel. We use it routinely to populate MySQL database tables from client Excel workbooks. The Unicode support is a little glitchy, but otherwise it works great. Note that Spreadsheet::WriteExcel is not nearly as nice, as it does not support Excel97 and higher yet. It's still back in the Excel95 world of 255 character limits on cells. SpreadSheet::ParseExcel works great on Linux, and likely works well on Windows as well (via ActiveState Perl) since it is a pure Perl implementation. Chris P.S. My company has a lot of experience with doc manipulation in Perl (Excel, DBF, PDF to name a few). If you need serious help, you are welcome to contact us professionally. Sorry for the blatant plug. :-)