From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 01:50:15 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:50:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Next meeting when, need redhat 8.
In-Reply-To: <3DC1E270.2020409@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20021101075015.76771.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com>


> Did we decide on tomorrow or Nov 8th for the next
> Friday meeting?

Next Friday -- the 8th -- will be the next meeting.
State Street is likely to be impossible on the 1st.

> Also, If anyone has some redhat 8 CD's they are
> willing to part with, I 
> will come pick them up, if you need them back I'll
> burn copies.

I'll bring a copy or two with me of RedHat 8.0 ...
free for the taking.

-Steve Krause

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



From sogo at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 05:24:32 2002
From: sogo at cs.wisc.edu (Takashi Sogo)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 05:24:32 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
Message-ID: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>

How do you pronounce MySQL? Or what is the correct pronunciation?

miskewl

mai es kew el

or something else?


--
Takashi Sogo <sogo at cs.wisc.edu>




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 07:47:46 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:47:46 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] mail clients
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210311839060.2477-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
References: <20021030112952.C9723@cae.wisc.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210311839060.2477-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <20021101134746.GA21180@cs.wisc.edu>

On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 07:08:03PM -0600, Mark Tinberg wrote:
> I don't know if mutt's apparent anemic searching capabilities will be a
> ... 
> Note I use PINE for email which has pretty slick filtering and searching 
> support IMHO.  YMMV.

What searching/filtering capabilities does Pine have that mutt doesn't?
I can search and filter on most things I want (short of *FULL* blown
regexp engine) in mutt. My biggest problem is remembering to use the
European date syntax, but you can probably change that somewhere and I
haven't looked.

-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From sterling at sterlinganderson.net  Fri Nov  1 09:03:19 2002
From: sterling at sterlinganderson.net (Sterling Anderson)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:03:19 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021101150319.GA1340@sterlinganderson.net>

I pronouce it "My Sequel".

Takashi Sogo had this to say on Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 05:24:32AM -0600
> How do you pronounce MySQL? Or what is the correct pronunciation?
> 
> miskewl
> 
> mai es kew el
> 
> or something else?
> 
> 
> --
> Takashi Sogo <sogo at cs.wisc.edu>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug


^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^
Sterling Anderson -- sterling at sterlinganderson.net
http://sterlinganderson.net

"Don't hate me, Trinity. I'm just a messenger, and right now I'm going to
prove it to you. If Morpheus was right, then there's no way I can pull this
plug. I mean if Neo's the one, then there'd have to be some kind of a
miracle to stop me. Right? I mean how can he be the one if he's dead? You
never did answer me before. If you bought into Morpheus' bullshit -- come on
-- all I want is a little yes or no. Look into his eyes, those big pretty
eyes and tell me. Yes or no."
		-- Cypher, "The Matrix"

^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^



From sogo at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 11:28:12 2002
From: sogo at cs.wisc.edu (Takashi Sogo)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:28:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211011125120.3014-100000@tux21.cs.wisc.edu>

I've just found this at
http://www.mysql.com/products/what_is_mysql.html

> The official way to pronounce MySQL is "my ess que ell" (not
> "my sequel"), but we don't mind if you pronounce it as "my
> sequel" or in some other localised way.


--
takashi sogo
    mailto:sogo at cs.wisc.edu




From rhayden at geek.net  Fri Nov  1 11:31:52 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:31:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211011125120.3014-100000@tux21.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211011131350.26787-100000@titan.odeon.net>

We could pronounce it as "Not Microsoft Crap" :-)

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Takashi Sogo wrote:

> I've just found this at
> http://www.mysql.com/products/what_is_mysql.html
>
> > The official way to pronounce MySQL is "my ess que ell" (not
> > "my sequel"), but we don't mind if you pronounce it as "my
> > sequel" or in some other localised way.
>
>
> --
> takashi sogo
>     mailto:sogo at cs.wisc.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>




From sogo at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 11:43:53 2002
From: sogo at cs.wisc.edu (Takashi Sogo)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:43:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211011131350.26787-100000@titan.odeon.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211011143140.3014-100000@tux21.cs.wisc.edu>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> We could pronounce it as "Not Microsoft Crap" :-)

That's a good one.


--
takashi sogo
    mailto:sogo at cs.wisc.edu




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 07:55:35 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:55:35 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021101135535.GB21180@cs.wisc.edu>

On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 05:24:32AM -0600, Takashi Sogo wrote:
> How do you pronounce MySQL? Or what is the correct pronunciation?

"The official way to pronounce MySQL is ``My Ess Que Ell'' (not ``my
sequel''), but we don't mind if you pronounce it as ``my sequel'' or in
some other localised way."

http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Introduction.html#What-is

-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov  1 12:03:25 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:03:25 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <20021101135535.GB21180@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu> <20021101135535.GB21180@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021101180325.GF21479@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

Wow, 4-hour delivery time. Wasn't trying to be redundant. :)

On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 07:55:35AM -0600, Will McDonald wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 05:24:32AM -0600, Takashi Sogo wrote:
> > How do you pronounce MySQL? Or what is the correct pronunciation?
> 
> "The official way to pronounce MySQL is ``My Ess Que Ell'' (not ``my
> sequel''), but we don't mind if you pronounce it as ``my sequel'' or in
> some other localised way."
> 
> http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Introduction.html#What-is
-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From ericansay at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  1 14:37:40 2002
From: ericansay at earthlink.net (Eric M. Ansay)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:37:40 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] ADSL Modems
References: <7E5E54F1-ED8C-11D6-93DB-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu> <20021101135535.GB21180@cs.wisc.edu> <20021101180325.GF21479@upl.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <018601c281e6$861bdf70$9865fea9@eric>

All...

I recently moved from Boulder, CO and I have two SpeedStream 5260 Ethernet
ADSL Modems....if anyone on this list is interested in one or both of them,
email me off the list.  I no longer have a use for them now that I have
cable......wish I still had DSL :(

Eric




From trowbrid at execpc.com  Fri Nov  1 15:51:59 2002
From: trowbrid at execpc.com (Tim J Trowbridge)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:51:59 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] SSH passphrases
Message-ID: <20021101155159.A3072@shell.core.com>

Thus spake Mark Tinberg (mtinberg at securepipe.com):

> I recommend turning off protocol 1 entirely.  It is not used as there are 
> plenty of protocol 2 clients for any OS you care to name.  Many of the 

QNX 4.x doesn't have an ssh2 client

I realize that it's antiquated software, but the company I work for is
firmly entrenched in QNX 4.


-Tim




From don_schultz at panvera.com  Fri Nov  1 15:56:01 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:56:01 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] SSH passphrases
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BDE16@mercury.panvera.com>

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks mark, Actually my sshd_config files look pretty close to yours,
I've been using protocol 2 and dsa only for some time now. 

Actually I've been able to get it work using keychain, awesome script!
Thanks for all your guy's help.

.:Don Schultz
::Network Administrator-Unix Systems
::Panvera, LLC
::501 Charmany Dr.
::Madison, WI 53719

::don_schultz at panvera.com
::608-204-5060 

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From mtinberg at securepipe.com  Fri Nov  1 16:03:38 2002
From: mtinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:03:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] mail clients
In-Reply-To: <20021101134746.GA21180@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211011557570.4438-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Will McDonald wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 07:08:03PM -0600, Mark Tinberg wrote:
> > I don't know if mutt's apparent anemic searching capabilities will be a
> > ... 
> > Note I use PINE for email which has pretty slick filtering and searching 
> > support IMHO.  YMMV.
> 
> What searching/filtering capabilities does Pine have that mutt doesn't?
> I can search and filter on most things I want (short of *FULL* blown
> regexp engine) in mutt. My biggest problem is remembering to use the
> European date syntax, but you can probably change that somewhere and I
> haven't looked.

I don't know, I haven't really used mutt.  I've tried to set it up a 
couple of times but was never able to get a working configuration, even 
after some effort.  In any event the original post stated that they were 
having some trouble with filtering in mutt, this may just have been 
related to performace problems with large mbox files and not with mutt's 
filtering capabilities per se.

-- 
Mark Tinberg <MTinberg at securepipe.com>
Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc.
Remember:  Wherever you go, there you are!
Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1  38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7

	Your daily fortune . . . 

Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.




From mtinberg at securepipe.com  Fri Nov  1 16:06:54 2002
From: mtinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:06:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] SSH passphrases
In-Reply-To: <20021101155159.A3072@shell.core.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211011605571.4438-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Tim J Trowbridge wrote:

> Thus spake Mark Tinberg (mtinberg at securepipe.com):
> 
> > I recommend turning off protocol 1 entirely.  It is not used as there are 
> > plenty of protocol 2 clients for any OS you care to name.  Many of the 
> 
> QNX 4.x doesn't have an ssh2 client
> 
> I realize that it's antiquated software, but the company I work for is
> firmly entrenched in QNX 4.

Hmm, interesting.  You may be right, I don't see QNX listed as a supported 
OS for the *NIX port of OpenSSH.  You still might try to compile it and 
see if it builds though.

http://www.openssh.com/portable.html

-- 
Mark Tinberg <MTinberg at securepipe.com>
Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc.
Remember:  Wherever you go, there you are!
Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1  38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7

	Your daily fortune . . . 

Galbraith's Law of Human Nature:
	Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that
	there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.




From tim at madweb.org  Sat Nov  2 02:01:35 2002
From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:01:35 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] RPM Problem
Message-ID: <3DC3865F.4090903@madweb.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings

In my ongoing quest to destroy my Linux system without even trying, I
have come upon an interesting problem with RPM.  If I try to upgrade or
install new RPM files, it will work fine on the first RPM file, but then
never seems to finish after installing the first RPM.  Then, any command
that touches any rpm command hangs on the system and will not respond.
I have to kill the process in order to get it to terminate.

Any ideas on what to look at?

On a side note, I mentioned at a previous meeting that I have no working
fan on my CPU because it was too loud.  The system ran fine without the
fan provided you did not try to compile anything large and then the
compiler died in flames and glory.  I became determined to upgrade my
kernel without having to restart the compile every five minutes.  Me
being the observant person I am, I noticed that it was cold outside.
Very cold.  My CPU was getting too warm, so the solution came to mind.
Open up the box, put it next to my open window to the cold outdoors, put
a 18" box fan in the window aiming in at the box, put on coat, gloves
and a hat, turn fan on high. :)  It got the job done and I have a new
shiney kernel, minus any compiler deaths, and it only took me to freeze
my entire apartment.

Just a random note I thought I would throw out there.  Now, any
suggestions on the RPM problem?

Ok, off to try to learn nethack...

Cheers!

- --
Tim Schaab                  http://www.madweb.org
TSC Technician              http://tsc.bus.wisc.edu
AISP System Administrator   http://aisp.bus.wisc.edu

Life is what you make it.  If you think you can or can not, you are
right.  It is all up to you.
~  - Words of Wisdom

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From rferguson at voyager.net  Sat Nov  2 11:47:15 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:47:15 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] Check this link. "Pimp Linux"  woot!
Message-ID: <200211021247.15954.rferguson@voyager.net>

http://www.pimplinux.com/index.html

Be sure to check out the "Pimp Slap" and "LapDance" varieties.

-ray




From hardburn at runbox.com  Sat Nov  2 16:04:44 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:04:44 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
Message-ID: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm looking at turning some $5 Swap specials into routers on my home network, 
and I'd like to reduce the ammount of power they're using.  The first thing I 
thought of was to load everything needed into a RAM disk, chroot the system 
there, then spin-down the hard drive.

Any other suggestions?  Basically, I need a motherboard, RAM, a CPU, and two 
NICs running in these boxes.  Any slight reduction in power that doesn't 
involve buying anything is fine by me :)

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
<kceee^> I hate users
<knghtbrd> you sound like a sysadmin already!
		--irc.openprojects.org, #debian
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From rhayden at geek.net  Sat Nov  2 16:26:00 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:26:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211021624500.3402-100000@titan.odeon.net>

I think there's a linux distribution that fits on floppy designed for a
"router" type install.  It might even be based around zebra.  You could
get away with no hard drive at all.


On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Timm Murray wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm looking at turning some $5 Swap specials into routers on my home network,
> and I'd like to reduce the ammount of power they're using.  The first thing I
> thought of was to load everything needed into a RAM disk, chroot the system
> there, then spin-down the hard drive.
>
> Any other suggestions?  Basically, I need a motherboard, RAM, a CPU, and two
> NICs running in these boxes.  Any slight reduction in power that doesn't
> involve buying anything is fine by me :)
>
> - --
> Timm Murray
> GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
> - ----------
> <kceee^> I hate users
> <knghtbrd> you sound like a sysadmin already!
> 		--irc.openprojects.org, #debian
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
>
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> r1QAoJiySis5aW/GEOmg61YJ9G4yjeqj
> =i1No
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>




From harv at tds.net  Sat Nov  2 17:33:10 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harvey Nelson)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:33:10 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>
References: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <200211021733.10792.harv@tds.net>

I think this is what you are looking for.
If you do it right, you won't even need the Hard drive, only the floppy.

http://www.linuxrouter.org/

GL

Harv

On Saturday 02 November 2002 04:04 pm, Timm Murray wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm looking at turning some $5 Swap specials into routers on my home
> network, and I'd like to reduce the ammount of power they're using.  The
> first thing I thought of was to load everything needed into a RAM disk,
> chroot the system there, then spin-down the hard drive.
>
> Any other suggestions?  Basically, I need a motherboard, RAM, a CPU, and
> two NICs running in these boxes.  Any slight reduction in power that
> doesn't involve buying anything is fine by me :)
>
> - --
> Timm Murray
> GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
> - ----------
> <kceee^> I hate users
> <knghtbrd> you sound like a sysadmin already!
> 		--irc.openprojects.org, #debian
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
>
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> =i1No
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From harv at tds.net  Sat Nov  2 17:55:57 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harvey Nelson)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:55:57 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>
References: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <200211021755.57909.harv@tds.net>

Try this one, too ... same sort of deal.

http://www.freesco.org/

Harv

On Saturday 02 November 2002 04:04 pm, Timm Murray wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm looking at turning some $5 Swap specials into routers on my home
> network, and I'd like to reduce the ammount of power they're using.  The
> first thing I thought of was to load everything needed into a RAM disk,
> chroot the system there, then spin-down the hard drive.
>
> Any other suggestions?  Basically, I need a motherboard, RAM, a CPU, and
> two NICs running in these boxes.  Any slight reduction in power that
> doesn't involve buying anything is fine by me :)
>
> - --
> Timm Murray
> GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
> - ----------
> <kceee^> I hate users
> <knghtbrd> you sound like a sysadmin already!
> 		--irc.openprojects.org, #debian
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
>
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> r1QAoJiySis5aW/GEOmg61YJ9G4yjeqj
> =i1No
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From hardburn at runbox.com  Sat Nov  2 19:00:25 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:00:25 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021755.57909.harv@tds.net>
References: <200211021604.49195.hardburn@runbox.com> <200211021755.57909.harv@tds.net>
Message-ID: <200211021900.30142.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 02 November 2002 17:55, you wrote:
> Try this one, too ... same sort of deal.
>
> http://www.freesco.org/
<>

(When I first saw that address, I thought "Free SCO?  SCO sucks!" :)

I thought about using a LRP, but floppies are highly unreliable, and I don't 
want to trust them to boot a system that needs to be up 24/7.  I could boot 
LRP with the hard drive and then move everything into RAM disk, but the only 
hard drives I have laying around here are ~500 MB.  With that much space, I 
might as well use a minimal Debian system.

Anyway, what I really wanted were some pointers on reducing power consumption.  
Anyone ever try underclocking?

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from a 
Perl script.
		--"Programming Perl", p. 363
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From mafriedel at charter.net  Sat Nov  2 22:31:15 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:31:15 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Last night's meeting was really boring!
Message-ID: <16C5BABE-EEE5-11D6-B25F-000393B99164@charter.net>

OK, who's bright idea was it to cancel last night's meeting? (just 
kidding, I just read the archives and subscribed to the list)

There were only about 4 people in SnB at about 8:00pm.  The freaks 
outside apparently weren't venturing inside.  It was pretty much dead.

I guess I'll have to save my trick-or-TREATS for next week.

Mark




From willb at cs.wisc.edu  Sun Nov  3 08:05:05 2002
From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:05:05 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021900.30142.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>

If you are paying for your own power, then one of those $100-$150 
all-in-one router boxes will pay for itself in under a year.  IIRC, it 
costs between $10-$20 a month to run a full-size computer.  The other 
concern is heat dissipation and noise -- if you don't want to go deaf 
from continual hum, then you'll want to put your "router" in a closet 
or something -- but then it will get awfully hot and may experience 
component damage.





wb




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Sun Nov  3 11:51:59 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:51:59 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <200211021900.30142.hardburn@runbox.com> <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021103175158.GA30603@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

I agree with this statement about the all-in-one routers, but it is
still useful to be able to have a full linux router. Plus, he's got the
boxes. You'll want to get rid of fans, so, depending on what kind of
boxes you got, you mad be able to get away without any. If having the
case open is a possibility go for that - on an old system with a decent
heatsink you should be able to keep the temps down. And yes, if the MB
allows it, underclocking should help. If you really want to get rid of
fans, you could drop $30 on zaurus(?) flower heatsink, which I'm using
to cool my 1.6GHz.

I've had a system running with no HD with only CDROM and RAM. If you
don't want to use floppy, I'd imagine that a CD drive would use less
power than a HD.

Also, while it's probably not an option with your Swap boxes, but
netbooting could solve the whole storage problem, although it adds a
reliance on another machine.

-will

On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 08:05:05AM -0600, Will Benton wrote:
> If you are paying for your own power, then one of those $100-$150 
> all-in-one router boxes will pay for itself in under a year.  IIRC, it 
> costs between $10-$20 a month to run a full-size computer.  The other 
> concern is heat dissipation and noise -- if you don't want to go deaf 
> from continual hum, then you'll want to put your "router" in a closet 
> or something -- but then it will get awfully hot and may experience 
> component damage.

-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From hardburn at runbox.com  Sun Nov  3 12:35:47 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:35:47 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <200211031235.50945.hardburn@runbox.com>

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Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 03 November 2002 08:05, you wrote:
> If you are paying for your own power, then one of those $100-$150
> all-in-one router boxes will pay for itself in under a year.  IIRC, it
> costs between $10-$20 a month to run a full-size computer.  The other
> concern is heat dissipation and noise -- if you don't want to go deaf
> from continual hum, then you'll want to put your "router" in a closet
> or something -- but then it will get awfully hot and may experience
> component damage.

I don't like the "all-in-one routers" because you don't learn anything from 
them.  One of my goals for this project is using Zebra to experiment with 
routing.  I have experiance with Cisco routers and firewalls, but those are 
quite pricey.

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
X windows:  Our bugs run faster.
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From mafriedel at charter.net  Sun Nov  3 19:30:44 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:30:44 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAEEPLCKAA.mafriedel@charter.net>

$100-$150?  Try $30 for a Linksys box from Best Buy right now.  With a 4
port switch.

I'm seriously tempted.  I've been running FloppyFW on an old 486/66 for
about 2 years now.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org
[mailto:madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org]On Behalf Of Will Benton
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:05 AM
To: hardburn at runbox.com
Cc: madlug
Subject: Re: [Madlug] Low-power system


If you are paying for your own power, then one of those $100-$150
all-in-one router boxes will pay for itself in under a year.  IIRC, it
costs between $10-$20 a month to run a full-size computer.  The other
concern is heat dissipation and noise -- if you don't want to go deaf
from continual hum, then you'll want to put your "router" in a closet
or something -- but then it will get awfully hot and may experience
component damage.





wb


_______________________________________________
Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From ericansay at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  3 22:22:14 2002
From: ericansay at earthlink.net (Eric M. Ansay)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:22:14 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Anyone have any experience with the Asus A7M266-D motherboard?
References: <40E16086-EF35-11D6-812B-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu> <200211031235.50945.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <017c01c283b9$c3b56a70$9865fea9@eric>

On Saturday I recieved the above mentioned board for free, and I was
thinking of making a budget dual budget system for myself...I already have
the memory, and I have a RAID controller with 4 hard drives - basicly I have
just about everything to make this an awsome system (SCSI CD-ROM/DVD drives,
2 gigs of memory, GeForce 4 TI 4600 video card)...except for the CPU's.  I
was reading Asus's website and it stated that for the system to be dual proc
I had to run Athlon MP processors....I'd do that buy they top out at
2200mhz....I'd like to run Athlon XP processors at 2600mhz - does anyone
know if I can do this?  Or do I have to do a mod?

Thanks,
Eric




From amanda at kepley.us  Sun Nov  3 23:39:34 2002
From: amanda at kepley.us (Amanda Kepley)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:39:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Computer geek jobs for summer
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211032331400.8324-100000@johnny5.kepley.us>

Hi all,

This is somewhat offtopic, but here it goes...

My s.o. is going to be living in Madison this summer and is looking for a
job in the area. How are the job prospects for computer geeks
(particularly programming and sys admin work) in Madison? Does the
university hire people for the summer? What companies might be good bets
to send resumes to?

Thanks for the help.

Amanda Kepley




From herzog at uhhh.org  Mon Nov  4 08:26:11 2002
From: herzog at uhhh.org (herzog at uhhh.org)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:26:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Computer geek jobs for summer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211032331400.8324-100000@johnny5.kepley.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211040825370.29795-100000@runt.uhhh.org>

I might know of a few more permanent positions if they are looking for
that.  Nothing for just the summer though...

On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Amanda Kepley wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This is somewhat offtopic, but here it goes...
>
> My s.o. is going to be living in Madison this summer and is looking for a
> job in the area. How are the job prospects for computer geeks
> (particularly programming and sys admin work) in Madison? Does the
> university hire people for the summer? What companies might be good bets
> to send resumes to?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Amanda Kepley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>

-- 
Larry Herzog Jr.        "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain
ZRXOA #1029              conceit, but in humility consider others
herzog at uhhh.org          better than yourselves." - Philippians 2:3




From rhayden at geek.net  Mon Nov  4 08:41:23 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:41:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Computer geek jobs for summer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211032331400.8324-100000@johnny5.kepley.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211040839200.16565-100000@titan.odeon.net>

A lot of the more professional positions at the university are being left
unhired of late due to the budget shortfalls.  people may retire or leave
for other reasons, and they just don't get filled.

That said, there are still a lot of positions that come up from time to
time and the UW web site has the best running list of everything that is
open.  There are also links there to other state-agency positions that may
be able to help you out.


On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Amanda Kepley wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This is somewhat offtopic, but here it goes...
>
> My s.o. is going to be living in Madison this summer and is looking for a
> job in the area. How are the job prospects for computer geeks
> (particularly programming and sys admin work) in Madison? Does the
> university hire people for the summer? What companies might be good bets
> to send resumes to?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Amanda Kepley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>




From don_schultz at panvera.com  Mon Nov  4 10:23:09 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:23:09 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] SSH acting weird
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BDE7F@mercury.panvera.com>

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm running the ssh-agent on the local
machine, and I want to connect passwordless to the remote machine; All I
have to do is load up my private keys into the agent on the local
machine, and put the public key on the remote machine in the
"/home/<username>/.ssh/authorized_keys2" file right? (I'm using DSA
only)

What's weird in my situation is: I'm using keychain on the local
machine; If I ssh into the remote machine I'm asked for a password... If
I ssh from the remote machine to the local machine it always asks me for
my passPHRASE, wtf am I doing wrong here? I thought one of the points of
using pub/private keys for authentication in ssh is to do away with
passwords, what's the point if I have to enter a passphrase EVERY TIME I
log on, not to mention it seems to be working backwards! Anyone have any
idea or did I smoke too much crack before work this morning?

.:Don Schultz
::Network Administrator-Unix Systems
::Panvera, LLC
::501 Charmany Dr.
::Madison, WI 53719

::don_schultz at panvera.com
::608-204-5060 

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From steve at tds.net  Sat Nov  2 18:53:27 2002
From: steve at tds.net (scayford)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:53:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Low-power system
In-Reply-To: <200211021755.57909.harv@tds.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211021850270.25155-100000@isaiah.dafarafet.net>

On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Harvey Nelson wrote:

> Try this one, too ... same sort of deal.
> 
> http://www.freesco.org/
> 

While we're on the topic... http://leaf.sourceforge.net is another good 
place to look for a couple different distros like this.

-SteveC





From harv at tds.net  Mon Nov  4 10:44:55 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harvey Nelson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:44:55 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Computer geek jobs for summer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211032331400.8324-100000@johnny5.kepley.us>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211032331400.8324-100000@johnny5.kepley.us>
Message-ID: <200211041044.55996.harv@tds.net>

Try UW Hospitals, Info Systems, too.

Harv

On Sunday 03 November 2002 11:39 pm, Amanda Kepley wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This is somewhat offtopic, but here it goes...
>
> My s.o. is going to be living in Madison this summer and is looking for a
> job in the area. How are the job prospects for computer geeks
> (particularly programming and sys admin work) in Madison? Does the
> university hire people for the summer? What companies might be good bets
> to send resumes to?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Amanda Kepley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From director at chpi.org  Mon Nov  4 11:08:14 2002
From: director at chpi.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:08:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Linux Programs for Producing Daisy Books
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211041105080.13486-100000@Jumbo>

Hello,
I'm researching expanding our services by producing books containing both 
voice and complete text in the Daisy format. If you wish to learn more 
about Daisy www.daisy.org is the official website. I'd like to find Linux 
programs to do this. Any help you can give would be much appreciated.
John


-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703





From snowfall at mailbag.com  Mon Nov  4 12:36:12 2002
From: snowfall at mailbag.com (snowfall)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:36:12 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Linux Programs for Producing Daisy Books
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211041105080.13486-100000@Jumbo>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211041105080.13486-100000@Jumbo>
Message-ID: <20021104123612.13e3382c.snowfall@mailbag.com>

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:08:14 -0600 (CST)
"John J. Boyer" <director at chpi.org> wrote:

> www.daisy.org . . .

I looked at this web page and was curious
too, so I emailed the webmaster and asked
whether they work with Linux. I will
forward any reply I receive.

MP



From rhayden at geek.net  Mon Nov  4 17:36:04 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:36:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Charter - Turning to Crap
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211041711290.19325-100000@titan.odeon.net>

The following is a rant.  Please press delete if you aren't in the mood...

* * * * *

My cable modem (pipeline platinum) has been giving me "issues" for the
past month or so.  For a while I thought it was on their end, however
Thursday and Friday, working with a tech, we were able to determine that
some kind of an RF problem was causing the outtage.  Service basicly goes
up and down randomly.

Great, next step is to get a tech out to see if it's a modem problem or
more likely a line problem.  Tech scheduled to show up this afternoon
after 3:00 and before 5:00.  So I take time off from work to be at home
for somebody to show up.

Nobody shows up.

I call tech support to figure out WTF...

"*click* *click* *click* Mr. Hayden, I see your modem currently up.  You
don't need a tech".

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

And the soonest they could get a tech out?  "10 days to three weeks".

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

The guy then refused to escalate me to a manager, transfer me to another
tech, and ended the call with "Stop wasting my time asshole, you're just
not that important" before hanging up on me.  No credit was offered for
the poor service over the last month or the no-show on the technician.

Needless to say, I'm pissed and want to vent, so I'm venting. :-)

Unfortunately, I'm too far away from the CO for DSL and I don't have
decent LoS to DoIT to try something crazy like wireless :(

What really torques me off is that it is likely RF interference on the
uplink, which means more than I might be affected.  Situations like that
should get a tech out lickity split!

(FYI, before I moved to UW, I was one of the chief engineers for AT&T's
cable modem network in St. Louis, which uses the same Cisco gear that
Charter uses.  Actually, Charter's tier2/3 engineering building was just
down the road from where we were at AT&T).

Ok.  I'm done ranting now.




From sogo at cs.wisc.edu  Mon Nov  4 18:50:45 2002
From: sogo at cs.wisc.edu (Takashi Sogo)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:50:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Charter - Turning to Crap
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211041711290.19325-100000@titan.odeon.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211041846160.5589-100000@tux36.cs.wisc.edu>

Regarding Charter Comm...

Yeah, I agree. I had a problem with Charter. So did my
friend. They need another competing company. Monopoly is not good.

It's too bad we can do nothing much about the stupid company. Hope
somebody had some kind of idea to improve this situation.


--
takashi sogo
    mailto:sogo at cs.wisc.edu




From harv at tds.net  Mon Nov  4 19:35:07 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:35:07 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Charter - Turning to Crap
Message-ID: <200211050135.gA51Z7TN027093@im2.sec.tds.net>

Suggest you try the Wisconsin Department of Ag, Trade, and Consumer Protection.  (608-224-4949).  Maybe try to suggest that since Charter has entered the internet arena, they are no longer simply entertainment providers but fall in the same class as phone companies, and service calls should come under the same sorts of regulation.  You seem to have most of the technical issues worked out ... that gives them something to work with.

Harv
 
> 
> From: "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden at geek.net>
> Date: 2002/11/04 Mon PM 05:36:04 CST
> To: Madison Linux Users Group <madlug at madisonlinux.org>
> Subject: [Madlug] Charter - Turning to Crap
> 
> The following is a rant.  Please press delete if you aren't in the mood...
> 
> * * * * *
> 
> My cable modem (pipeline platinum) has been giving me "issues" for the
> past month or so.  For a while I thought it was on their end, however
> Thursday and Friday, working with a tech, we were able to determine that
> some kind of an RF problem was causing the outtage.  Service basicly goes
> up and down randomly.
> 
> Great, next step is to get a tech out to see if it's a modem problem or
> more likely a line problem.  Tech scheduled to show up this afternoon
> after 3:00 and before 5:00.  So I take time off from work to be at home
> for somebody to show up.
> 
> Nobody shows up.
> 
> I call tech support to figure out WTF...
> 
> "*click* *click* *click* Mr. Hayden, I see your modem currently up.  You
> don't need a tech".
> 
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
> 
> And the soonest they could get a tech out?  "10 days to three weeks".
> 
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
> 
> The guy then refused to escalate me to a manager, transfer me to another
> tech, and ended the call with "Stop wasting my time asshole, you're just
> not that important" before hanging up on me.  No credit was offered for
> the poor service over the last month or the no-show on the technician.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm pissed and want to vent, so I'm venting. :-)
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm too far away from the CO for DSL and I don't have
> decent LoS to DoIT to try something crazy like wireless :(
> 
> What really torques me off is that it is likely RF interference on the
> uplink, which means more than I might be affected.  Situations like that
> should get a tech out lickity split!
> 
> (FYI, before I moved to UW, I was one of the chief engineers for AT&T's
> cable modem network in St. Louis, which uses the same Cisco gear that
> Charter uses.  Actually, Charter's tier2/3 engineering building was just
> down the road from where we were at AT&T).
> 
> Ok.  I'm done ranting now.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 




From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 20:18:10 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:18:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] **Meeting Reminder**
Message-ID: <20021105021810.69238.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com>

Calling all Penguinistas:

The weather outside is frightful, but Steep & Brew is
so delightful -- so let us gather this Friday (7pm) at
Steep & Brew on State Street.

As requested, I'll bring some RedHat 8.0 CDs for those
who need/want them.

On the "agenda", we'll discuss--briefly--some upcoming
meeting topics, including some for presentations at
the Comp. Sci. building.

Also, I have two copies (one a big dog-eared) of
"Linux Clustering" (Newriders, 2002) -- courtesy of
the publisher. I'll bring them with me, all the
publisher wants is a small review at your online
bookseller of choice.

I checked the UW calendar, and there does not seem to
be anything major that should cause unexpected traffic
issues. There are a couple shows around 7:30 at the
Orpheum and Civic Center (closer to the capitol); the
Kohl Center doesn't seem to have any events that
night.

http://www.madcivic.org/events/events_cal.html
http://www.today.wisc.edu/
http://www.uwbadgers.com/

If you are driving, try the ramps between Francis and
Lake Streets (between Johnson and University, and
between University and State).

See you there,

Steve K.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 20:33:13 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:33:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Xandros Desktop "special deal"
Message-ID: <20021105023313.76477.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com>

I expect some of you have already received this, but
for those who haven't, and who might be interested,
I'm passing this along.

Xandros Desktop ( www.xandros.com ) is a Debian-based
distribution (based on the former Corel Linux distro),
and they have a special deal for LUG members. From
their email:

"From now till the end of November, 
we are offering Linux Users Group 
members worldwide a discount of  45% 
so you can try Xandros Desktop for 
yourself. For US customers, you will 
also be able to enjoy free shipping
to all lower 48 states. So for a total 
of US $54.45, you will have Xandros 
Desktop delivered right to your home."

Please use this LUG discount coupon code when
ordering: dcce72d486f2

Links to features, a FAQ, reviews, etc. are all
available on their website.

Yours,

Steve K.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



From wa4chq at qsl.net  Tue Nov  5 06:19:39 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:19:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] pre-made alias
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings all-
I am using Mandrake 9 and have found many of the aliases were setup
automaticly.  Is there a way to change this?  Right now if I type 'l' or
'ls', if gives the list in color, which is ok, but I have to type 'dir' to
give the no-color command.  I know how to add an alias to my .bashrc but I
just want to change the ones that were premade.
tnx
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Tue Nov  5 07:33:14 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:33:14 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] pre-made alias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021105133314.GA1099@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

alias l="something else" or
unalias l

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 07:19:39AM -0500, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> Greetings all-
> I am using Mandrake 9 and have found many of the aliases were setup
> automaticly.  Is there a way to change this?  Right now if I type 'l' or
> 'ls', if gives the list in color, which is ok, but I have to type 'dir' to
> give the no-color command.  I know how to add an alias to my .bashrc but I
> just want to change the ones that were premade.
> tnx
> Neil T.
-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From rferguson at voyager.net  Tue Nov  5 10:24:56 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:24:56 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] pre-made alias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200211051124.56541.rferguson@voyager.net>

Global aliases are usually setup in /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile.  To find the 
culprit, as root just:

cd /etc
grep alias *

Comment out the ugly entry in the file.

also, you can overide the alias for a particular command at execution time by 
preceding the command w/ a backslash

\ls

-ray.

On Tuesday 05 November 2002 07:19 am, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> Greetings all-
> I am using Mandrake 9 and have found many of the aliases were setup
> automaticly.  Is there a way to change this?  Right now if I type 'l' or
> 'ls', if gives the list in color, which is ok, but I have to type 'dir' to
> give the no-color command.  I know how to add an alias to my .bashrc but I
> just want to change the ones that were premade.
> tnx
> Neil T.

-- 
To criticize the incompetent is easy; it is more difficult to criticize
the competent.




From rferguson at voyager.net  Tue Nov  5 10:20:33 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:20:33 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] SSH acting weird
In-Reply-To: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BDE7F@mercury.panvera.com>
References: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BDE7F@mercury.panvera.com>
Message-ID: <200211051120.33982.rferguson@voyager.net>

On Monday 04 November 2002 11:23 am, Don Schultz wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm running the ssh-agent on the local
> machine, and I want to connect passwordless to the remote machine; All I
> have to do is load up my private keys into the agent on the local
> machine, and put the public key on the remote machine in the
> "/home/<username>/.ssh/authorized_keys2" file right? (I'm using DSA
> only)
>
> What's weird in my situation is: I'm using keychain on the local
> machine; If I ssh into the remote machine I'm asked for a password... If
> I ssh from the remote machine to the local machine it always asks me for
> my passPHRASE, wtf am I doing wrong here? I thought one of the points of
> using pub/private keys for authentication in ssh is to do away with
> passwords, what's the point if I have to enter a passphrase EVERY TIME I
> log on, not to mention it seems to be working backwards! Anyone have any
> idea or did I smoke too much crack before work this morning?

Weird.  It's been a while since I set my keys up, but as I remember, it's 
pretty much as you stated.  However, I suspect that you may have done it a 
little backwords.  The pass PHRASE is something you can set when generating 
you key set.  This is in case you want key & passwd authentication.  It's a 
pass-phrase for the particular key.  If you dont' specify one when making the 
key, it allows passwordless entry.  On the local box, you should have id_dsa 
that is owned by you w/ 600 permissions (private key).  id_dsa.pub which is 
world readable and copied into remote:~./authorized_keys2.

Additionally you can throw a -v on the ssh command and observe debugging 
output.  Of course, the config on the remote machine must also allow 
passwordless DSA key access and you must issue the ssh command on local as 
the user who owns the private key.  I vaguely remember specific permissions 
on the private key being required.  It may refuse to use a world readable 
private key.  If this is the case, it'll show up w/ the -v flag.

Hope that helps.

-ray.





From martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net  Tue Nov  5 11:39:56 2002
From: martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:39:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] pre-made alias
In-Reply-To: <200211051124.56541.rferguson@voyager.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211051138160.5368-100000@enclitic.wonderfrog.net>

 : also, you can overide the alias for a particular command at execution time by 
 : preceding the command w/ a backslash
 : \ls

Or (for bash users) using the shell builtin "command"

$ command ls

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown --- Wonderfrog Enterprises --- martin at wonderfrog.net





From mafriedel at charter.net  Tue Nov  5 13:45:01 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 13:45:01 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] pre-made alias
In-Reply-To: <200211051124.56541.rferguson@voyager.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211050715420.1529-100000@localhost.localdomain>
	 <200211051124.56541.rferguson@voyager.net>
Message-ID: <1036525501.3290.9.camel@mark-friedel.wpsic.com>

On Redhat systems (Mandrake's still built on Redhat architecture,
right?) it's in /etc/profile.d/

The /etc/bashrc script is set up to read the entries in the
/etc/profile.d directory to set up specific aliases.

Mark


On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 10:24, raymond wrote:
> Global aliases are usually setup in /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile.  To find the 
> culprit, as root just:
> 
> cd /etc
> grep alias *
> 
> Comment out the ugly entry in the file.
> 
> also, you can overide the alias for a particular command at execution time by 
> preceding the command w/ a backslash
> 
> \ls
> 
> -ray.
> 
> On Tuesday 05 November 2002 07:19 am, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> > Greetings all-
> > I am using Mandrake 9 and have found many of the aliases were setup
> > automaticly.  Is there a way to change this?  Right now if I type 'l' or
> > 'ls', if gives the list in color, which is ok, but I have to type 'dir' to
> > give the no-color command.  I know how to add an alias to my .bashrc but I
> > just want to change the ones that were premade.
> > tnx
> > Neil T.
> 
> -- 
> To criticize the incompetent is easy; it is more difficult to criticize
> the competent.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From wa4chq at qsl.net  Wed Nov  6 06:35:14 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:35:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] tnx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211060734140.1607-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings all
I would again like to thank everyone for help with some of my linux
questions.
Cheers
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From wa4chq at qsl.net  Wed Nov  6 06:44:47 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:44:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] Error message
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211060735180.1607-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings all-
A few days ago, I edited my /etc/fstab in order to mount another linux
partion at bootup.  It seemed to work, but I noticed some weird stuff on
the boot screen after I did it.  I don't know if it was a coincindence
because I had been installing/deleting stuff at the same time or if it had
something to do with the /etc/fstab addition.  I didn't make a note of all
the error messages I had at the time, since they seemed to have cleared
up after hashing out my addition to the /etc/fstab and not having the
extra partion mounted at bootup, but I still have this error message:
[mntent]: warning: no final newline at end of the end of /etc/fstab
Thanks
Neil T.



-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Wed Nov  6 11:27:43 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:27:43 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Error message
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211060735180.1607-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211060735180.1607-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021106172743.GA24459@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 07:44:47AM -0500, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> the error messages I had at the time, since they seemed to have cleared
> up after hashing out my addition to the /etc/fstab and not having the
> extra partion mounted at bootup, but I still have this error message:
> [mntent]: warning: no final newline at end of the end of /etc/fstab

It sounds a if you either have errors with the file systems (can you
access them if you mount them manually?), or you have malformed fstab
lines. Feel free to post them if you're not sure. And, as the error
says, you don't have a newline after the last line in the file. 

-w

-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From ted at hiegel.net  Thu Nov  7 06:41:00 2002
From: ted at hiegel.net (Ted Cohen)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:41:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>

 >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:27:43 -0600
 >From: Will McDonald <will at upl.cs.wisc.edu>
 >Subject: fstab error
 >And, as the error says,
 >you don't have a newline after the last line in the file.


this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that 
can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a de 
facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?




From will at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Thu Nov  7 08:04:37 2002
From: will at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Will McDonald)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:04:37 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
Message-ID: <20021107140437.GA31390@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 06:41:00AM -0600, Ted Cohen wrote:
> >And, as the error says,
> >you don't have a newline after the last line in the file.
> this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that 
> can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a de 
> facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?

I don't know of any hex editors (I'm sure there are some good ones), but
if you use vim you can use "vim -b" to edit binary files. Not a "hex
editor" but will get the job done in a pinch for changine ASCII in a
binary.

To your original point, however, just go to the end of the last line and
type "<ENTER>".


-- 
---------Will McDonald-----------------will at upl.cs.wisc.edu----------
GPG encrypted mail preferred. Join the web-o-trust!  Key ID: F4332B28




From jmjaco at charter.net  Thu Nov  7 08:16:41 2002
From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:16:41 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
Message-ID: <20021107141641.GC17846@strider>

On 11/07/02, Ted Cohen wrote:
> this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that 
> can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a de 
> facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?

I don't know about universal or de facto.  I use vche, which has several
modes for running in different environments.  It stands for "visual
console hex editor," I think.

-- 
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  If we say that we have
not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
                            http://www.grace-els.org



From matt at securepipe.com  Thu Nov  7 08:58:22 2002
From: matt at securepipe.com (Matthew Callaway)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:58:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <20021107141641.GC17846@strider>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211070858070.1756-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>

Has anyone mentioned khexedit yet?

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Jesse Jacobsen wrote:

> On 11/07/02, Ted Cohen wrote:
> > this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that 
> > can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a de 
> > facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?
> 
> I don't know about universal or de facto.  I use vche, which has several
> modes for running in different environments.  It stands for "visual
> console hex editor," I think.




From willb at cs.wisc.edu  Thu Nov  7 10:28:32 2002
From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:28:32 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211070858070.1756-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <F4CD018C-F26D-11D6-B424-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>

or "ghex"?  ;)


wb

On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 08:58  AM, Matthew Callaway wrote:

> Has anyone mentioned khexedit yet?
>
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Jesse Jacobsen wrote:
>
>> On 11/07/02, Ted Cohen wrote:
>>> this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor 
>>> that
>>> can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is 
>>> there a de
>>> facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?
>>
>> I don't know about universal or de facto.  I use vche, which has 
>> several
>> modes for running in different environments.  It stands for "visual
>> console hex editor," I think.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Thu Nov  7 11:38:04 2002
From: bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu (John Bethencourt)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:38:04 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net>
Message-ID: <20021107173804.GB32671@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 06:41:00AM -0600, Ted Cohen wrote:
> 
> this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that 
> can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a de 
> facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?
> 

Emacs has a hex editing mode (M-x hexl-mode). Does anyone know if there is
way to get Emacs to display and edit a file in binary?

John Bethencourt




From hardburn at runbox.com  Thu Nov  7 15:05:41 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:05:41 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <20021107173804.GB32671@upl.cs.wisc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107063332.02670910@pop.terracom.net> <20021107173804.GB32671@upl.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <200211071505.45161.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 07 November 2002 11:38, John Bethencourt wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 06:41:00AM -0600, Ted Cohen wrote:
> > this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that
> > can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a
> > de facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?
>
> Emacs has a hex editing mode (M-x hexl-mode). Does anyone know if there is
> way to get Emacs to display and edit a file in binary?

If there's a way to turn Emacs into a web browser, there's gotta be a way to 
make it display binary files.

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
This message double encrypted with ROT13.  Decoding is punishable by 
death under the DMCA.
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj3K1agACgkQqpueKcacfLSqzgCgxNvYfscdJBPsI9Um305XuE4r
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=LIU7
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From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 15:18:21 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:18:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] **Meeting Reminder**
In-Reply-To: <1036697200.24960.89.camel@dts.godrights.org>
Message-ID: <20021107211821.39144.qmail@web11101.mail.yahoo.com>

Everyone is welcome ... (though we charge admission
for SuSE users ...)

-Steve K


--- ehagglun <eahagglun at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Are these meetings for members only or 
> are newbies allowed?


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 15:21:21 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:21:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <200211071505.45161.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <20021107212121.24985.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timm Murray <hardburn at runbox.com> wrote:

> If there's a way to turn Emacs into a web browser,
> there's gotta be a way to 
> make it display binary files.

Bah, webbrowsing is easy -- is there a web-server mode
for emacs? :)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From trowbrid at execpc.com  Thu Nov  7 15:28:46 2002
From: trowbrid at execpc.com (Tim J Trowbridge)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:28:46 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
Message-ID: <20021107152846.A22895@shell.core.com>

Thus spake Timm Murray (hardburn at runbox.com):

> On Thursday 07 November 2002 11:38, John Bethencourt wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 06:41:00AM -0600, Ted Cohen wrote:
> > > this brings up a question or three. is there a universal hex editor that
> > > can be found in every linux distribution? if so, what is it?  is there a
> > > de facto standard hex editor?  does any one have a favorite hex editor?

What about BEAV (Binary Editor And Viewer)?  I've used that one in the days
of DOS, but I believe it was ported to/from the *IX world.  Just checked -
"apt-get install beav" works great.

-Tim




From hardburn at runbox.com  Thu Nov  7 20:47:07 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:47:07 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] linux hex editor
In-Reply-To: <20021107212121.24985.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021107212121.24985.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200211072047.11496.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 07 November 2002 15:21, Steve Krause wrote:
> --- Timm Murray <hardburn at runbox.com> wrote:
> > If there's a way to turn Emacs into a web browser,
> > there's gotta be a way to
> > make it display binary files.
>
> Bah, webbrowsing is easy -- is there a web-server mode
> for emacs? :)

Web servers are a lot simpler than clients.  Nobody would bother trying :)

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
It is against the grain of modern education to teach children to program.  
What fun is there in making plans, acquiring discipline in organizing 
thoughts, devoting attention to detail, and learning to be self-critical?
		--Alan Perlis
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From snowfall at mailbag.com  Fri Nov  8 13:24:46 2002
From: snowfall at mailbag.com (snowfall)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:24:46 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Fw: RE: linux format tools / Daisy project
Message-ID: <20021108132446.56f3a931.snowfall@mailbag.com>

I am forwarding to the list the reply I received to
my query about the Daisy project which is to implement
access for those who are blind or cannot read 
printed matter easily. Hope this reaches the original
questioner from Computers to Help People -- I have
misplaced his personal email address.

MP

- - - - - - - -

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:50:04 +0100
From: "Markus Gylling" <markus.gylling at tpb.se>
To: <snowfall at mailbag.com>
Subject: RE: linux format tools

Regarding playback tools:
One of the most interesting Daisy cross-platform projects right now is
AMIS (Adaptive Multimedia Information System). This player is being
written in Java. Right now, it exists as a Windows-only prototype, but
the first Java version is scheduled to  be released in the december
timeframe. You can find more information at
http://www.amisproject.org/.

Also, there is a player development project going on at the technology
institute at New Delhi (ITT Delhi). Their player is written directly on
the Linux kernel. The project website adress I have is currently not
available, but the institutes adress is http://www.cse.iitd.ernet.in/

Regarding authoring tools:
Currently, there are no authoring tools available for other platforms
than Windows. However, devleopment projects are being discussed that
might change this situation quite soon.

Hope this helps. Regards, 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: snowfall [mailto:snowfall at mailbag.com] 
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:35 AM
> To: info at mail.daisy.org 
> Subject: linux format tools
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We would like to know if Daisy has applications
> and tools available for use with Linux.
> 
> Thank you,
> Mary Pulliam
> Madison Linux Users Group
> Madison WI USA
> 
> 
> 


Markus Gylling
International Technical Development Coordinator
the DAISY Consortium
www.daisy.org 

TPB - The Swedish Library of Talking books and Braille
Sandsborgsv?gen 52 12288 Enskede
Telephone: 08-399350
Fax: 08-6599467
www.tpb.se




From director at chpi.org  Fri Nov  8 13:57:49 2002
From: director at chpi.org (John J. Boyer)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:57:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Fw: RE: linux format tools / Daisy project
In-Reply-To: <20021108132446.56f3a931.snowfall@mailbag.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211081356220.21726-100000@Jumbo>

MP,
Thanks for forwarding this message. The information is very much 
appreciated. I'll forward your message to the gnomebrl mailing list.
John

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, snowfall wrote:

> 
> I am forwarding to the list the reply I received to
> my query about the Daisy project which is to implement
> access for those who are blind or cannot read 
> printed matter easily. Hope this reaches the original
> questioner from Computers to Help People -- I have
> misplaced his personal email address.
> 
> MP
> 
> - - - - - - - -
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:50:04 +0100
> From: "Markus Gylling" <markus.gylling at tpb.se>
> To: <snowfall at mailbag.com>
> Subject: RE: linux format tools
> 
> Regarding playback tools:
> One of the most interesting Daisy cross-platform projects right now is
> AMIS (Adaptive Multimedia Information System). This player is being
> written in Java. Right now, it exists as a Windows-only prototype, but
> the first Java version is scheduled to  be released in the december
> timeframe. You can find more information at
> http://www.amisproject.org/.
> 
> Also, there is a player development project going on at the technology
> institute at New Delhi (ITT Delhi). Their player is written directly on
> the Linux kernel. The project website adress I have is currently not
> available, but the institutes adress is http://www.cse.iitd.ernet.in/
> 
> Regarding authoring tools:
> Currently, there are no authoring tools available for other platforms
> than Windows. However, devleopment projects are being discussed that
> might change this situation quite soon.
> 
> Hope this helps. Regards, 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: snowfall [mailto:snowfall at mailbag.com] 
> > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:35 AM
> > To: info at mail.daisy.org 
> > Subject: linux format tools
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > We would like to know if Daisy has applications
> > and tools available for use with Linux.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Pulliam
> > Madison Linux Users Group
> > Madison WI USA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Markus Gylling
> International Technical Development Coordinator
> the DAISY Consortium
> www.daisy.org 
> 
> TPB - The Swedish Library of Talking books and Braille
> Sandsborgsv?gen 52 12288 Enskede
> Telephone: 08-399350
> Fax: 08-6599467
> www.tpb.se
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 
> 

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703





From wa4chq at qsl.net  Sat Nov  9 05:35:26 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:35:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] regarding error message
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211090629050.1587-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings all
Thanks for the info regarding the error message I was getting.  It now
seems to be in order.  I ending up re-editing /etc/fstab and trying to get
the other Linux partition to mount when I boot.  All seems to have worked.
Thanks.....
I have one other error message that I see when I shutdown.  I don't know
if I copied it exactly but this is it:
xinit: interupted system call, errno4, unexpected signal 15
Thanks
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From wa4chq at qsl.net  Sat Nov  9 06:05:34 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 07:05:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] regarding my xinit error
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211090656390.2385-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings
I am looking at man/xinit and sorta see what it means.  When I boot up, I
don't start in the graphix mode, so I type startx.  I have .xinitrc in my
home directory and maybe I need to change something there?  Here is a
copy:
---------------------------
#! /bin/sh
#
#Eterm &
taumix -geometry 36x8+304+301 &
xterm +sb -geometry 65x24+10+0 -bg black -fg wheat &
icewm
------------------
Thanx
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From jiml at slh.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 10 21:17:58 2002
From: jiml at slh.wisc.edu (James E. Leinweber)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:17:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Re: regarding my xinit error
In-Reply-To: <20021109123030.23654.62681.Mailman@franz.stat.wisc.edu>
	(madlug-request@madisonlinux.org)
Message-ID: <200211110317.VAA23100@slh.wisc.edu>

Neil T. writes:
> ... I type startx.

And in a previous message:
>I have one other error message that I see when I shutdown.  I don't know
>if I copied it exactly but this is it:
>xinit: interupted system call, errno4, unexpected signal 15

15 is SIGTERM, which all remaining processes get during Linux
shutdown, followed a few seconds later by SIGKILL (#9) for any which
didn't go away.[1]

You can probably ignore the lament about the unexpected SIGTERM, as
it's normal behavior for your setup.  But if it bothers you, a
solution would be to exit your icewm window manager before doing the
shutdown.  That should cause X to exit.

-- James E. Leinweber
Information Systems - State Laboratory of Hygiene - University of Wisconsin
<jiml at slh.wisc.edu> 465 Henry Mall, Madison WI 53706, US; +1 608 262 0736
PGP fingerprint: 2E36 47BC DB03 57CE 86AD  19CC 41A1 9179 5C6B C8B9

[1] even kill -9 isn't 100% guaranteed; consider a process asleep in a
 buggy device driver ...




From rferguson at voyager.net  Mon Nov 11 16:46:28 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:46:28 +0000
Subject: [Madlug] Checkinstall.
Message-ID: <200211112246.28452.rferguson@voyager.net>

I ran accross this nifty program and thought I'd share.  For the 
administrators out there who need a specially compiled version of a program, 
but don't like giving up the simplicity of binary package management, this is 
the tool you've longed for.

http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/

-ray.

-- 
Progress might have been all right once, but it's gone on too long.
		-- Ogden Nash




From wa4chq at qsl.net  Tue Nov 12 05:08:13 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:08:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] xinit error
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211120605250.1467-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks for the info.  I now see that closing down X first then halting the
machine eliminates the error message.
All the best-
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From wa4chq at qsl.net  Tue Nov 12 05:15:05 2002
From: wa4chq at qsl.net (wa4chq at qsl.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:15:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Madlug] recording question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211120608270.1467-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Greetings all
Is there a way to record/save a song that you hear when listening to
Internet Radio?  I was listening to some cool streaming blues the other
day (RealPlayer etc) and wished I could have saved it.
Thanks
Neil T.

-- 
Linux Rules the roost.
Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq




From mwmayer at tds.net  Tue Nov 12 08:43:18 2002
From: mwmayer at tds.net (Mike Mayer)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 08:43:18 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Best way to configure iptables
Message-ID: <1037112200.1146.100.camel@auberon>

I've been playing with iptables on RedHat 8.0. I think I have figured
out how I want to filter, but I'm not sure what the "best" way to
configure it is. If I do a save and look at /etc/sysconfig/iptables it
is in a format that I'm not sure I fully understand. All of the
documentation I can find seems to assume you are typing at the console. 

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the rules are order
dependent, so having a configuration file that you can play with would
be the way to go. Is there a recommended or best way to configure
iptables?

-- 
=============================================================================
Mike Mayer
mwmayer at tds.net





From tim at madweb.org  Tue Nov 12 09:24:58 2002
From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:24:58 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Best way to configure iptables
References: <1037112200.1146.100.camel@auberon>
Message-ID: <3DD11D4A.3030605@madweb.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings,

That file is the output of /sbin/iptables-save.  All you need to do to
get it get iptables saved and restarted is to first get iptables setup
the way you wany it from the command line.  When you have it working how
you want it to, execute the following:

/etc/init.d/iptables save

And this will save your current configuration to /etc/sysconfig/iptables
and will restart it on reboot.

For the initial creation of the iptables rules, try putting the commands
all in a small shell script and run it when it all looks good to you.
There are some good starter firewal scripts on freshmeat.net to get you
going.

For a graphical interface to iptables, try webmin.  It is a damn fine
web based admin package that helps you configure a ton of different
system and server settings.  You can find it at www.webmin.com.  It has
an iptables modules that can help you in setting up your rules the way
you want it.

Hope this helps,

Cheers!

Tim

Mike Mayer wrote:
| I've been playing with iptables on RedHat 8.0. I think I have figured
| out how I want to filter, but I'm not sure what the "best" way to
| configure it is. If I do a save and look at /etc/sysconfig/iptables it
| is in a format that I'm not sure I fully understand. All of the
| documentation I can find seems to assume you are typing at the console.
|
| Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the rules are order
| dependent, so having a configuration file that you can play with would
| be the way to go. Is there a recommended or best way to configure
| iptables?
|



- --
Tim Schaab                  http://www.madweb.org
TSC Technician              http://tsc.bus.wisc.edu
AISP System Administrator   http://aisp.bus.wisc.edu

Life is what you make it.  If you think you can or can not, you are
right.  It is all up to you.
~  - Words of Wisdom

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Using PGP with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQA/AwUBPdEdSmPEs0eIjVJYEQLiOgCeMjNDpEoJp87M3lsb2/aP2nQkCoEAoOT0
Ug4MqNPVcrJyVQeuKDxsUDOm
=AN8i
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From willb at cs.wisc.edu  Tue Nov 12 09:41:14 2002
From: willb at cs.wisc.edu (Will Benton)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:41:14 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] recording question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211120608270.1467-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <2D352F77-F655-11D6-BF58-000393C452DC@cs.wisc.edu>

Google for vsound.  The owner has withdrawn it due to copyright law 
concerns, but there are mirrors.  Your soundcard may have an internal 
loopback (most recent sb cards do), which you can set to record from 
with a mixer application like gmix.  Also, if you're using alsa, you 
can duplicate vsound's functionality with an rc file hack.  I don't 
remember the exact incantation, but if you're interested, I can try and 
find it for you.






wb

On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 05:15  AM, <wa4chq at qsl.net> wrote:

> Greetings all
> Is there a way to record/save a song that you hear when listening to
> Internet Radio?  I was listening to some cool streaming blues the other
> day (RealPlayer etc) and wished I could have saved it.
> Thanks
> Neil T.
>
> -- 
> Linux Rules the roost.
> Ham Radio Rules the waves...http://www.qsl.net/wa4chq
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net  Tue Nov 12 09:43:31 2002
From: martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:43:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Best way to configure iptables
In-Reply-To: <3DD11D4A.3030605@madweb.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211120938040.560-100000@enclitic.wonderfrog.net>

Hello,

I strongly recommend learning the command line of iptables.  My 
favorite documentation of iptables is a reference by Oskar 
Andreasson, and is available here:

  http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/

Good luck,

-Martin

 : -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 : Hash: SHA1
 : 
 : Greetings,
 : 
 : That file is the output of /sbin/iptables-save.  All you need to do to
 : get it get iptables saved and restarted is to first get iptables setup
 : the way you wany it from the command line.  When you have it working how
 : you want it to, execute the following:
 : 
 : /etc/init.d/iptables save
 : 
 : And this will save your current configuration to /etc/sysconfig/iptables
 : and will restart it on reboot.
 : 
 : For the initial creation of the iptables rules, try putting the commands
 : all in a small shell script and run it when it all looks good to you.
 : There are some good starter firewal scripts on freshmeat.net to get you
 : going.
 : 
 : For a graphical interface to iptables, try webmin.  It is a damn fine
 : web based admin package that helps you configure a ton of different
 : system and server settings.  You can find it at www.webmin.com.  It has
 : an iptables modules that can help you in setting up your rules the way
 : you want it.
 : 
 : Hope this helps,
 : 
 : Cheers!
 : 
 : Tim
 : 
 : Mike Mayer wrote:
 : | I've been playing with iptables on RedHat 8.0. I think I have figured
 : | out how I want to filter, but I'm not sure what the "best" way to
 : | configure it is. If I do a save and look at /etc/sysconfig/iptables it
 : | is in a format that I'm not sure I fully understand. All of the
 : | documentation I can find seems to assume you are typing at the console.
 : |
 : | Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the rules are order
 : | dependent, so having a configuration file that you can play with would
 : | be the way to go. Is there a recommended or best way to configure
 : | iptables?
 : |
 : 
 : 
 : 
 : - --
 : Tim Schaab                  http://www.madweb.org
 : TSC Technician              http://tsc.bus.wisc.edu
 : AISP System Administrator   http://aisp.bus.wisc.edu
 : 
 : Life is what you make it.  If you think you can or can not, you are
 : right.  It is all up to you.
 : ~  - Words of Wisdom
 : 
 : -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
 : Version: PGP 6.5.8
 : Comment: Using PGP with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 : 
 : iQA/AwUBPdEdSmPEs0eIjVJYEQLiOgCeMjNDpEoJp87M3lsb2/aP2nQkCoEAoOT0
 : Ug4MqNPVcrJyVQeuKDxsUDOm
 : =AN8i
 : -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 : 
 : 
 : _______________________________________________
 : Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
 : http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
 : 
 : 

-- 
Martin A. Brown --- Wonderfrog Enterprises --- martin at wonderfrog.net




From harv at tds.net  Tue Nov 12 13:11:00 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harvey Nelson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:11:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] recording question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211120608270.1467-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0211120608270.1467-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200211121311.00708.harv@tds.net>

If you were to delete the helper/appliction specifications from the mime type 
file in your browser, then, when you clicked on the link, rather than tossing 
up realplayer to deal with the file, the browser would ask you (I think) what 
you want to do with this type of file ... save it, or you some special helper 
ap. .... We know what you wanna do!

I dunno if it'll work ... just another hams 1st attempt to jeri-rig a 
solution.

73
Harv/KG9GA


On Tuesday 12 November 2002 05:15 am, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> Greetings all
> Is there a way to record/save a song that you hear when listening to
> Internet Radio?  I was listening to some cool streaming blues the other
> day (RealPlayer etc) and wished I could have saved it.
> Thanks
> Neil T.




From mafriedel at charter.net  Tue Nov 12 21:02:41 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:02:41 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Best way to configure iptables
In-Reply-To: <1037112200.1146.100.camel@auberon>
Message-ID: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAMEGJCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>

I've muddled through iptables before, but recently found gShield to be very
useful.

http://muse.linuxmafia.org/gshield.html

-----Original Message-----
From: madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org
[mailto:madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Mayer
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:43 AM
To: madlug at madisonlinux.org
Subject: [Madlug] Best way to configure iptables


I've been playing with iptables on RedHat 8.0. I think I have figured
out how I want to filter, but I'm not sure what the "best" way to
configure it is. If I do a save and look at /etc/sysconfig/iptables it
is in a format that I'm not sure I fully understand. All of the
documentation I can find seems to assume you are typing at the console.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the rules are order
dependent, so having a configuration file that you can play with would
be the way to go. Is there a recommended or best way to configure
iptables?

--
============================================================================
=
Mike Mayer
mwmayer at tds.net



_______________________________________________
Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From scayford at tds.net  Tue Nov 12 21:43:05 2002
From: scayford at tds.net (scayford at tds.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:43:05 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] DVD drive errors
Message-ID: <3DD1CA49.4040504@tds.net>

(Apologies if this gets posted twice, I sent it from the wrong account...)

Hey. I got myself a combo DVD/CD drive and have been trying to get it to
work under Redhat 7.3.

The CD part works fine, and I made a sym link from /dev/dvd to /dev/hdc
(there's also a sym link from /dev/cdrom to /dev/hdc), but every time I
load a DVD the kernel starts churning out error messages to the log
like this:

Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: status=0x51 {
DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: error=0x30
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: ATAPI device hdc:
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   Error: Medium error -- (Sense key=0x03)
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   (reserved error code) -- (asc=0x30,
ascq=0x02)
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   The failed "Read Subchannel" packet
command was:
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   "42 02 40 01 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 "

It puts out a set like this about once a second. I actually got a movie to
start playing, but it's pretty jumpy... probably partly because the
kernel's busy generating these errors. Any idea why it's doing this? I've
got the feature to automount a CD turned off, but maybe it's still trying
to identify it and failing on an encrypted DVD or something?

Thanks for suggestions.

-SteveC





From spiritlover666 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 12 22:32:53 2002
From: spiritlover666 at yahoo.com (Staci)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:32:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Mutt configuration?
Message-ID: <20021113043253.51648.qmail@web12808.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi guys...
I'm having ongoing gui-browser issues.
So I'm in Lynx.  And getting mighty sick of logging in to Yahoo every
time I want to check my email.  So I thought I'd fire up Mutt and use
my UW email temporarily.  
BUT I can't seem to figure out where to put in my pop-server address and
stuff like that.  

Could someone enlighten me?  I looked at the manual but I didn't find 
anything that looked helpful. :/

thanks
staci

=====
*****************************************
In cyberspace nobody can hear you scream.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From jmjaco at charter.net  Wed Nov 13 07:15:06 2002
From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:15:06 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Mutt configuration?
In-Reply-To: <20021113043253.51648.qmail@web12808.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021113043253.51648.qmail@web12808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021113131505.GA11040@strider>

On 11/12/02, Staci wrote:
> BUT I can't seem to figure out where to put in my pop-server address
> and stuff like that.  
> 
> Could someone enlighten me?  I looked at the manual but I didn't find
> anything that looked helpful. :/

The config stuff goes into ~/.muttrc.  There are variables and there are
commands.  Assign values to variables with the "set" command.  The
syntax is described more in the manpage muttrc(5).  (To read it, type
"man muttrc" at a command line.)

In the same manpage, you can search for the string "pop" to see all
variables or commands for setting up your pop account information.
There are quite a number of things you can do.  

Personally, I like to use fetchmail, which grabs incoming mail from
several servers, then splits it into several local mailboxes by topic,
using procmail.  My ~/.muttrc contains the mailboxes command, which
tells mutt where to find all those local mailboxes that can receive
incoming mail.  When invoking mutt, I always use the "-y" option (via a
bash alias), which makes it display a menu of those mailboxes, showing
which have received new mail.

It takes a little fiddling to get mutt to where it does exactly what you
want, but unlike many other mailers, it *can* be told how to do exactly
what you want.

Have fun,

Jesse

-- 
My flesh and my heart fail; But God is the strength of my heart and my
portion forever.
                            http://www.grace-els.org



From jschaupp at wisc.edu  Tue Nov 12 18:59:00 2002
From: jschaupp at wisc.edu (Juergen Schaupp)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:59:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Checkinstall.
In-Reply-To: <"from rferguson"@voyager.net>
References: <200211112246.28452.rferguson@voyager.net>
Message-ID: <20021113005900.GA1128@lupo>

On 2002.11.11 16:46 raymond wrote:
> I ran accross this nifty program and thought I'd share.  For the
> administrators out there who need a specially compiled version of a
> program,
> but don't like giving up the simplicity of binary package management,
> this is
> the tool you've longed for.
> 
> http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/
> 
> -ray.
> 
  Great, I have been looking for that for quite a while!

Juergen



From steve at tds.net  Tue Nov 12 21:38:59 2002
From: steve at tds.net (scayford)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:38:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] DVD drive errors
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211122127510.20883-100000@isaiah.dafarafet.net>

Hey. I got myself a combo DVD/CD drive and have been trying to get it to 
work under Redhat 7.3.

The CD part works fine, and I made a sym link from /dev/dvd to /dev/hdc 
(there's also a sym link from /dev/cdrom to /dev/hdc), but every time I 
load a DVD the kernel starts churning out error messages to the log 
like this:

Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: status=0x51 { 
DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: error=0x30
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: ATAPI device hdc:
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   Error: Medium error -- (Sense key=0x03)
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   (reserved error code) -- (asc=0x30, 
ascq=0x02)
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   The failed "Read Subchannel" packet 
command was: 
Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   "42 02 40 01 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 "

It puts out a set like this about once a second. I actually got a movie to 
start playing, but it's pretty jumpy... probably partly because the 
kernel's busy generating these errors. Any idea why it's doing this? I've 
got the feature to automount a CD turned off, but maybe it's still trying 
to identify it and failing on an encrypted DVD or something?

Thanks for suggestions.

-SteveC





From harv at tds.net  Wed Nov 13 09:49:53 2002
From: harv at tds.net (Harvey Nelson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:49:53 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Scanner/Copier
Message-ID: <200211130949.53268.harv@tds.net>

Back in my 'Doze days there was a little program that connected my scanner to 
the printer ... essentially making a copy machine of the two devices ... thru 
the intersession of a tiny win98 program called "nCopy".

One placed an 8 1/2 x 11 document in the scanner, told "nCopy" how many you 
wanted, hit the "copy" button and BANG ... copies started rolling out of the 
printer.

How does one accomplish the same task with Linux?  Is there a little utility 
program like "nCopy" laying around?  I've been trying to use "Gimp", but its 
tedious.  So is loading a .jpg file into Star Office.  The results are less 
than satisfying.

Any suggestions?

I using an HP ScanJet and HP DJ500c with Mandrake 8.2

Thanks
Harv



From rickphil at hotpop.com  Wed Nov 13 09:59:38 2002
From: rickphil at hotpop.com (Rick Phillips)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:59:38 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] DVD drive errors
References: <3DD1CA49.4040504@tds.net>
Message-ID: <3DD276EA.7090009@hotpop.com>

Recompiling the kernel with this function in solved the problem for me:


CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE: Y

If you use Xconfig, its under ATA/IDE/ATAPI support, ATA/IDE/ATAP block 
devices, fifth block down: Use multimode by default.


scayford at tds.net wrote:

> (Apologies if this gets posted twice, I sent it from the wrong 
> account...)
>
> Hey. I got myself a combo DVD/CD drive and have been trying to get it to
> work under Redhat 7.3.
>
> The CD part works fine, and I made a sym link from /dev/dvd to /dev/hdc
> (there's also a sym link from /dev/cdrom to /dev/hdc), but every time I
> load a DVD the kernel starts churning out error messages to the log
> like this:
>
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: status=0x51 {
> DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: error=0x30
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: ATAPI device hdc:
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   Error: Medium error -- (Sense key=0x03)
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   (reserved error code) -- (asc=0x30,
> ascq=0x02)
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   The failed "Read Subchannel" packet
> command was:
> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   "42 02 40 01 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 "
>
> It puts out a set like this about once a second. I actually got a 
> movie to
> start playing, but it's pretty jumpy... probably partly because the
> kernel's busy generating these errors. Any idea why it's doing this? I've
> got the feature to automount a CD turned off, but maybe it's still trying
> to identify it and failing on an encrypted DVD or something?
>
> Thanks for suggestions.
>
> -SteveC
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>






From scayford at tds.net  Wed Nov 13 10:06:55 2002
From: scayford at tds.net (scayford at tds.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:06:55 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] DVD drive errors
In-Reply-To: <3DD276EA.7090009@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <EDE8253B-F721-11D6-9713-003065ECC2BC@tds.net>

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

-Steve

On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 09:59  AM, Rick Phillips wrote:

> Recompiling the kernel with this function in solved the problem for me:
>
>
> CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE: Y
>
> If you use Xconfig, its under ATA/IDE/ATAPI support, ATA/IDE/ATAP 
> block devices, fifth block down: Use multimode by default.
>
>
> scayford at tds.net wrote:
>
>> (Apologies if this gets posted twice, I sent it from the wrong 
>> account...)
>>
>> Hey. I got myself a combo DVD/CD drive and have been trying to get it 
>> to
>> work under Redhat 7.3.
>>
>> The CD part works fine, and I made a sym link from /dev/dvd to 
>> /dev/hdc
>> (there's also a sym link from /dev/cdrom to /dev/hdc), but every time 
>> I
>> load a DVD the kernel starts churning out error messages to the log
>> like this:
>>
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: status=0x51 
>> {
>> DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: hdc: packet command error: error=0x30
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel: ATAPI device hdc:
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   Error: Medium error -- (Sense 
>> key=0x03)
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   (reserved error code) -- (asc=0x30,
>> ascq=0x02)
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   The failed "Read Subchannel" packet
>> command was:
>> Nov 12 21:24:37 isaiah kernel:   "42 02 40 01 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 
>> "
>>
>> It puts out a set like this about once a second. I actually got a 
>> movie to
>> start playing, but it's pretty jumpy... probably partly because the
>> kernel's busy generating these errors. Any idea why it's doing this? 
>> I've
>> got the feature to automount a CD turned off, but maybe it's still 
>> trying
>> to identify it and failing on an encrypted DVD or something?
>>
>> Thanks for suggestions.
>>
>> -SteveC
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
>> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>




From hardburn at runbox.com  Wed Nov 13 20:38:03 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:38:03 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] System clock not working
Message-ID: <200211132038.07541.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I have a server at home that went down during a storm a few months ago and it 
didn't automatically come back up after the power came on again.  The server 
runs headless, so I didn't know what the real problem was.  I assumed that 
fsck had failed during the boot process and I'd have to run it manually.  
Until recently, I never got around to plugging a monitor and keyboard in so I 
could bring it back up.

It turned out that the BIOS had somehow been corrupted.  Most of the errors 
were automatically fixed when I entered the BIOS config screen, but the date 
had to be set manually.  I saved the changes and rebooted.  It still came up 
with a problem in the date.  It had actually reset itself back to a default 
time (midnight, Jan. 1, 1990).  I let it sit at that value and it booted fine 
after that.  However, the system clock still sits at that time.  Running an 
NTP client didn't help.

Following the old saying of "if it ain't completely broke, don't worry about 
it", I would normally be content to leave it as it is.  However, Makefiles 
seem to be really picky about the fact that time should move forward--they 
fail like this:

==> Your Makefile has been rebuilt. <==
==> Please rerun the make command.  <==
false
make: *** [Makefile] Error 1
  /usr/bin/make  -- NOT OK

I attempted to run make with the -k option (continue after errors), but then 
it appeared to enter an infinate loop (and since time is stoped on this 
system, that's going to take a lot longer than it will elsewhere).

Short of taking out the BIOS battery (which might not help anyway), anybody 
know of a way to either fix the BIOS or stop make from careing?

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
Evolution is a million line computer program falling into place by accident.
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From martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net  Thu Nov 14 00:04:26 2002
From: martin-madlug at wonderfrog.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:04:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] socat; generic i/o connector for files,sockets,pipes,{p,t}tys
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211140003030.12186-100000@enclitic.wonderfrog.net>

Hello all,

I just have to share this little gem.

So, we've all used telnet--probably not recently to log in to a 
telnet server...more likely to check a POP, IMAP or SMTP 
server.

Maybe you have used openssl to test to see if some SSL service is up
and running (e.g., "openssl s_client -connect www.openssl.org:443").

Some of us use netcat (nc) for a quick check on what version of ssh
is running where (e.g. "nc shell-box.with-exposed-ssh.org 22"), or
(damn!) gotta run a test UDP listener to see if packets are actually
arriving.  (e.g., "nc -nuvlp 53 -s 127.0.0.1")

Well, perhaps I have been living under a rock for the last few 
years, but a colleague just pointed me to the following tool.

  http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/

Socat is:

  nc with openssl
  telnet with readline support (on the client!)
  pipe connector
  proxy forwarder
  file descriptor connector
  a unix domain socket listener
  a TCP/UDP client or server  (IPv4 and IPv6)

Manpage here (with a couple of annotated examples):

  http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/doc/socat.html

Quick, simple example which does does port redirection and ssl with
one "server" type command.  Another socat command demonstrates how
to connect from STDIN.

$ socat -dddd -ls TCP4-LISTEN:27374,bind=127.0.0.1,reuseaddr,fork \
> OPENSSL:www.thawte.com:443
$ { echo "GET / HTTP/1.0"; echo; } | socat -t 4 - TCP4:127.0.0.1:27374

And out comes a pile of HTML and some HTTP headers....

This is neat.

This goes into my toolkit.  Having just tripped over it, I'm not
ready to consider it for servers and services but certainly a handy
diagnostic tool.

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown --- Wonderfrog Enterprises --- martin at wonderfrog.net




From kinbote at gruel.limey.net  Thu Nov 14 10:32:27 2002
From: kinbote at gruel.limey.net (Ted M)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:32:27 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Charter changes?
Message-ID: <20021114163228.8A25E20E23@kempe.infinitejest.org>

I have charter cablemodem service -- at the moment.

As of about an hour ago, I can no longer ssh to my machine.  I can't even 
ping my machine remotely.  But it's up.  It now appears to be behind a thick 
firewall, diminishing my service while charging the same monies.

I know Charter people read the madlug list.  What's going on?

- Ted M



From don_schultz at panvera.com  Thu Nov 14 11:25:29 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:25:29 -0600
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE0EB@mercury.panvera.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That's pretty sad :( it'd be nice if they did something like 
dsl where your bandwidth is set and they don't have to worry 
about you stealing it all for your area by running a 
webserver, ssh, etc... :/  is it possible for charter to do 
something like that? Or would it mean they'd have to 
completely redo their cabling structure?

.: Don Schultz
:: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
:: Panvera, LLC
:: 501 Charmany Dr.
:: Madison, WI 53719

:: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
:: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com

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Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta

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From rhayden at geek.net  Thu Nov 14 12:11:48 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:11:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE0EB@mercury.panvera.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211141155250.3073-100000@titan.odeon.net>

Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth allocation.  DSL still
oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have a 768/768 connection
doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200 others with the same
connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress to the SBC backbone.

Cable Modem has one drawback, however, there is a fixed maximum size for
the download (27MB generally) and upload (varies, but often around 3.2MB).
The upload speeds are limited by virtue of FCC regulations regarding
available frequencies and could be further limited by interferences from
radio and TV stations, machinery from manufacturing, and airport radar is
notorious for killing cable modem. (I got a great story about an aircraft
carrier in Seattle that would kill an entire neighborhood ever week for 2
hours because they would test their active radar array).

So, that would explain why you'll see packages like 1.5mb/128k.

However, with the peer to peer "crap" now all switching to tunneling the
file transfers into HTTP or SSH or some other tunnel, ISPs are seeing
residential "upload" rates explode.  We're really seeing this problem in
the residential halls at UW where outbound HTTP transfers have exploded to
> 60mb/sec at times when three months ago outbound HTTP was under 5mb/sec
average.

Now, that's not an apology for Charter.  I personally think that making
unannounced changes constitutes, at the very least, fraud.

However, if what you are really looking for is a shell so you can read
your mail in pine (my preferred method) or have a CLI to work with, there
are some inexpensive options out there like http://www.betterbox.net (they
specialize in shell accounts for hosting MUDs).  A couple of you could
also band together to purchase some business DSL or Cable package and
build a mini-colo in someone's basement.  The business packages wouldn't
have any firewalling.  This is what I did for geek.net, which sits in a
friend's basement in Minneapolis on a business DSL link.  As long as I can
surf, SSH out, and play computer games at home on charter, I'm generally
happy.

Of course, when Charter doesn't work....I'm not....

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Don Schultz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> That's pretty sad :( it'd be nice if they did something like
> dsl where your bandwidth is set and they don't have to worry
> about you stealing it all for your area by running a
> webserver, ssh, etc... :/  is it possible for charter to do
> something like that? Or would it mean they'd have to
> completely redo their cabling structure?
>
> .: Don Schultz
> :: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
> :: Panvera, LLC
> :: 501 Charmany Dr.
> :: Madison, WI 53719
>
> :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
> :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta
>
> iQA/AwUBPdPcaiF/whNNx4m6EQL6YACfdKayjQ4EMxlr2Ei6WC6uC1N1yGsAmwZT
> yscZbgFcmmSHtqu+S+JyqEA9
> =CC77
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>




From ericansay at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 14 12:17:41 2002
From: ericansay at earthlink.net (Eric M. Ansay)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:17:41 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] DSL modems...
References: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE0EB@mercury.panvera.com>
Message-ID: <00ed01c28c0a$1f275c30$9865fea9@eric>

I had posted a message about some DSL modems I have that I'd like to get rid
off....I had some replies, but my computer crashed and I lost them :(  Can
those people please email me again?

Thanks,
Eric




From ricko73 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 12:27:53 2002
From: ricko73 at yahoo.com (Hartman Darrick)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211141155250.3073-100000@titan.odeon.net>
Message-ID: <20021114182753.80361.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok...now they changed the lease times on the IP
addresses.  Previously it had been set for 2 days. 
NOW, it's set for 12 hours.  WTF!

I came home at lunch (now) and ended up resetting my
linksys router to refresh the IP address.

Changes are happening and I am not too happy.

Darrick

--- "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden at geek.net> wrote:
> Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth
> allocation.  DSL still
> oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have
> a 768/768 connection
> doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200
> others with the same
> connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress
> to the SBC backbone.
> 
> Cable Modem has one drawback, however, there is a
> fixed maximum size for
> the download (27MB generally) and upload (varies,
> but often around 3.2MB).
> The upload speeds are limited by virtue of FCC
> regulations regarding
> available frequencies and could be further limited
> by interferences from
> radio and TV stations, machinery from manufacturing,
> and airport radar is
> notorious for killing cable modem. (I got a great
> story about an aircraft
> carrier in Seattle that would kill an entire
> neighborhood ever week for 2
> hours because they would test their active radar
> array).
> 
> So, that would explain why you'll see packages like
> 1.5mb/128k.
> 
> However, with the peer to peer "crap" now all
> switching to tunneling the
> file transfers into HTTP or SSH or some other
> tunnel, ISPs are seeing
> residential "upload" rates explode.  We're really
> seeing this problem in
> the residential halls at UW where outbound HTTP
> transfers have exploded to
> > 60mb/sec at times when three months ago outbound
> HTTP was under 5mb/sec
> average.
> 
> Now, that's not an apology for Charter.  I
> personally think that making
> unannounced changes constitutes, at the very least,
> fraud.
> 
> However, if what you are really looking for is a
> shell so you can read
> your mail in pine (my preferred method) or have a
> CLI to work with, there
> are some inexpensive options out there like
> http://www.betterbox.net (they
> specialize in shell accounts for hosting MUDs).  A
> couple of you could
> also band together to purchase some business DSL or
> Cable package and
> build a mini-colo in someone's basement.  The
> business packages wouldn't
> have any firewalling.  This is what I did for
> geek.net, which sits in a
> friend's basement in Minneapolis on a business DSL
> link.  As long as I can
> surf, SSH out, and play computer games at home on
> charter, I'm generally
> happy.
> 
> Of course, when Charter doesn't work....I'm not....
> 
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Don Schultz wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > That's pretty sad :( it'd be nice if they did
> something like
> > dsl where your bandwidth is set and they don't
> have to worry
> > about you stealing it all for your area by running
> a
> > webserver, ssh, etc... :/  is it possible for
> charter to do
> > something like that? Or would it mean they'd have
> to
> > completely redo their cabling structure?
> >
> > .: Don Schultz
> > :: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
> > :: Panvera, LLC
> > :: 501 Charmany Dr.
> > :: Madison, WI 53719
> >
> > :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
> > :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta
> >
> >
>
iQA/AwUBPdPcaiF/whNNx4m6EQL6YACfdKayjQ4EMxlr2Ei6WC6uC1N1yGsAmwZT
> > yscZbgFcmmSHtqu+S+JyqEA9
> > =CC77
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> >
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From hardburn at runbox.com  Thu Nov 14 12:34:15 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:34:15 GMT
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
Message-ID: <E18COoh-0006g9-00@fifi.runbox.com>

> Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth allocation.  DSL still
> oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have a 768/768 connection
> doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200 others with the same
> connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress to the SBC backbone.
<>

DSL puts everyone on a switch, cable modems put everyone on a hub.  No matter what 
your neighbors do on their DSL lines, you always have the same bandwidth at least up to 
the DSLAM, so even though you have to share the DSLAM's bandwidth, at least you 
don't share the same physical wire.  On cable modems you do.



From hardburn at runbox.com  Thu Nov 14 12:35:24 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:35:24 GMT
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
Message-ID: <E18COpo-0006hB-00@fifi.runbox.com>

Try dyndns.org.

> Ok...now they changed the lease times on the IP
> addresses.  Previously it had been set for 2 days. 
> NOW, it's set for 12 hours.  WTF!
> 
> I came home at lunch (now) and ended up resetting my
> linksys router to refresh the IP address.
> 
> Changes are happening and I am not too happy.
> 
> Darrick
> 
> --- "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden at geek.net> wrote:
> > Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth
> > allocation.  DSL still
> > oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have
> > a 768/768 connection
> > doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200
> > others with the same
> > connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress
> > to the SBC backbone.
> > 
> > Cable Modem has one drawback, however, there is a
> > fixed maximum size for
> > the download (27MB generally) and upload (varies,
> > but often around 3.2MB).
> > The upload speeds are limited by virtue of FCC
> > regulations regarding
> > available frequencies and could be further limited
> > by interferences from
> > radio and TV stations, machinery from manufacturing,
> > and airport radar is
> > notorious for killing cable modem. (I got a great
> > story about an aircraft
> > carrier in Seattle that would kill an entire
> > neighborhood ever week for 2
> > hours because they would test their active radar
> > array).
> > 
> > So, that would explain why you'll see packages like
> > 1.5mb/128k.
> > 
> > However, with the peer to peer "crap" now all
> > switching to tunneling the
> > file transfers into HTTP or SSH or some other
> > tunnel, ISPs are seeing
> > residential "upload" rates explode.  We're really
> > seeing this problem in
> > the residential halls at UW where outbound HTTP
> > transfers have exploded to
> > > 60mb/sec at times when three months ago outbound
> > HTTP was under 5mb/sec
> > average.
> > 
> > Now, that's not an apology for Charter.  I
> > personally think that making
> > unannounced changes constitutes, at the very least,
> > fraud.
> > 
> > However, if what you are really looking for is a
> > shell so you can read
> > your mail in pine (my preferred method) or have a
> > CLI to work with, there
> > are some inexpensive options out there like
> > http://www.betterbox.net (they
> > specialize in shell accounts for hosting MUDs).  A
> > couple of you could
> > also band together to purchase some business DSL or
> > Cable package and
> > build a mini-colo in someone's basement.  The
> > business packages wouldn't
> > have any firewalling.  This is what I did for
> > geek.net, which sits in a
> > friend's basement in Minneapolis on a business DSL
> > link.  As long as I can
> > surf, SSH out, and play computer games at home on
> > charter, I'm generally
> > happy.
> > 
> > Of course, when Charter doesn't work....I'm not....
> > 
> > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Don Schultz wrote:
> > 
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > That's pretty sad :( it'd be nice if they did
> > something like
> > > dsl where your bandwidth is set and they don't
> > have to worry
> > > about you stealing it all for your area by running
> > a
> > > webserver, ssh, etc... :/  is it possible for
> > charter to do
> > > something like that? Or would it mean they'd have
> > to
> > > completely redo their cabling structure?
> > >
> > > .: Don Schultz
> > > :: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
> > > :: Panvera, LLC
> > > :: 501 Charmany Dr.
> > > :: Madison, WI 53719
> > >
> > > :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
> > > :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta
> > >
> > >
> >
> iQA/AwUBPdPcaiF/whNNx4m6EQL6YACfdKayjQ4EMxlr2Ei6WC6uC1N1yGsAmwZT
> > > yscZbgFcmmSHtqu+S+JyqEA9
> > > =CC77
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > >
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 



From andy at pork00.net  Thu Nov 14 12:48:27 2002
From: andy at pork00.net (Andy Koch)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:48:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <20021114163228.8A25E20E23@kempe.infinitejest.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211141247340.5238-100000@ham.pork00.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Down here in Fitchburg I noticed about a week ago Charter dropped their
firewall completely.  I first noticed it when I started getting random
people trying to use my Linux box as a mail forwarder.  As of right now 
my machine is not firewalled.  I would anticipate that it is going to 
change in the near future.

Andy Koch
andy at pork00.net
GPG Fingerprint = 8A6E FC19 8A53 993B 165F  8B3C E9E7 0CB8 6D0E 6C94

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ted M wrote:

> 
> I have charter cablemodem service -- at the moment.
> 
> As of about an hour ago, I can no longer ssh to my machine.  I can't even 
> ping my machine remotely.  But it's up.  It now appears to be behind a thick 
> firewall, diminishing my service while charging the same monies.
> 
> I know Charter people read the madlug list.  What's going on?
> 
> - Ted M
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 
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From rhayden at geek.net  Thu Nov 14 13:02:57 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:02:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <20021114182753.80361.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211141301280.3875-100000@titan.odeon.net>

Your linksys or linux firewall should be able to maintain that IP once you
got it even if they set the renew time to 12 minutes.  The only time you
should lose it is if you lose connectivity long enough or they reset and
scrub the database on their DHCP server.

If you use some kind of a dynamic DNS service, you could even set up a
forward for the IP regardless of what it becomes.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Hartman Darrick wrote:

> Ok...now they changed the lease times on the IP
> addresses.  Previously it had been set for 2 days.
> NOW, it's set for 12 hours.  WTF!
>
> I came home at lunch (now) and ended up resetting my
> linksys router to refresh the IP address.
>
> Changes are happening and I am not too happy.
>
> Darrick
>
> --- "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden at geek.net> wrote:
> > Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth
> > allocation.  DSL still
> > oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have
> > a 768/768 connection
> > doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200
> > others with the same
> > connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress
> > to the SBC backbone.
> >
> > Cable Modem has one drawback, however, there is a
> > fixed maximum size for
> > the download (27MB generally) and upload (varies,
> > but often around 3.2MB).
> > The upload speeds are limited by virtue of FCC
> > regulations regarding
> > available frequencies and could be further limited
> > by interferences from
> > radio and TV stations, machinery from manufacturing,
> > and airport radar is
> > notorious for killing cable modem. (I got a great
> > story about an aircraft
> > carrier in Seattle that would kill an entire
> > neighborhood ever week for 2
> > hours because they would test their active radar
> > array).
> >
> > So, that would explain why you'll see packages like
> > 1.5mb/128k.
> >
> > However, with the peer to peer "crap" now all
> > switching to tunneling the
> > file transfers into HTTP or SSH or some other
> > tunnel, ISPs are seeing
> > residential "upload" rates explode.  We're really
> > seeing this problem in
> > the residential halls at UW where outbound HTTP
> > transfers have exploded to
> > > 60mb/sec at times when three months ago outbound
> > HTTP was under 5mb/sec
> > average.
> >
> > Now, that's not an apology for Charter.  I
> > personally think that making
> > unannounced changes constitutes, at the very least,
> > fraud.
> >
> > However, if what you are really looking for is a
> > shell so you can read
> > your mail in pine (my preferred method) or have a
> > CLI to work with, there
> > are some inexpensive options out there like
> > http://www.betterbox.net (they
> > specialize in shell accounts for hosting MUDs).  A
> > couple of you could
> > also band together to purchase some business DSL or
> > Cable package and
> > build a mini-colo in someone's basement.  The
> > business packages wouldn't
> > have any firewalling.  This is what I did for
> > geek.net, which sits in a
> > friend's basement in Minneapolis on a business DSL
> > link.  As long as I can
> > surf, SSH out, and play computer games at home on
> > charter, I'm generally
> > happy.
> >
> > Of course, when Charter doesn't work....I'm not....
> >
> > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Don Schultz wrote:
> >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > That's pretty sad :( it'd be nice if they did
> > something like
> > > dsl where your bandwidth is set and they don't
> > have to worry
> > > about you stealing it all for your area by running
> > a
> > > webserver, ssh, etc... :/  is it possible for
> > charter to do
> > > something like that? Or would it mean they'd have
> > to
> > > completely redo their cabling structure?
> > >
> > > .: Don Schultz
> > > :: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
> > > :: Panvera, LLC
> > > :: 501 Charmany Dr.
> > > :: Madison, WI 53719
> > >
> > > :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
> > > :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta
> > >
> > >
> >
> iQA/AwUBPdPcaiF/whNNx4m6EQL6YACfdKayjQ4EMxlr2Ei6WC6uC1N1yGsAmwZT
> > > yscZbgFcmmSHtqu+S+JyqEA9
> > > =CC77
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > >
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
>




From rhayden at geek.net  Thu Nov 14 13:07:40 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:07:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <E18COoh-0006g9-00@fifi.runbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211141304060.3875-100000@titan.odeon.net>

That doesn't really matter, Timm, in the grand scheme of things, since max
bandwidth is locked by the cable modem's DOCIS download.  Presumably, a
good ISP/cable provider will monitor the data rates and groom customers to
new loops when capacity reaches the issue.  I know AT&T would groom a loop
in half when it reached 80% capacity, and Charter St. Louis was (at the
time) very good about grooming when capacity was reached.  I don't know
what Charter Madison's policies for grooming is, however.

I do know that I've been, when the circuit is up, getting very good
performance from my pipeline platinum service; usually in the 1.8mb down
and 220k or so up.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Timm Murray wrote:

> > Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth allocation.  DSL still
> > oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have a 768/768 connection
> > doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200 others with the same
> > connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress to the SBC backbone.
> <>
>
> DSL puts everyone on a switch, cable modems put everyone on a hub.  No matter what
> your neighbors do on their DSL lines, you always have the same bandwidth at least up to
> the DSLAM, so even though you have to share the DSLAM's bandwidth, at least you
> don't share the same physical wire.  On cable modems you do.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>





From pork at ham.pork00.net  Thu Nov 14 12:10:49 2002
From: pork at ham.pork00.net (pork at ham.pork00.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:10:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <20021114163228.8A25E20E23@kempe.infinitejest.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211141202220.5082-100000@ham.pork00.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Down here in Fitchburg I noticed about a week ago Charter dropped their 
firewall completely.  I first noticed it when I started getting random 
people trying to use my Linux box as a mail forwarder.  As of right now my 
machine is not firewalled.  I would anticipate that it is going to change 
in the near future.

Andy Koch
andy at pork00.net
GPG Fingerprint = 8A6E FC19 8A53 993B 165F  8B3C E9E7 0CB8 6D0E 6C94

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ted M wrote:

> 
> I have charter cablemodem service -- at the moment.
> 
> As of about an hour ago, I can no longer ssh to my machine.  I can't even 
> ping my machine remotely.  But it's up.  It now appears to be behind a thick 
> firewall, diminishing my service while charging the same monies.
> 
> I know Charter people read the madlug list.  What's going on?
> 
> - Ted M
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 

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From bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Thu Nov 14 15:11:27 2002
From: bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu (John Bethencourt)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:11:27 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] socat; generic i/o connector for files,sockets,pipes,{p,t}tys
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211140003030.12186-100000@enclitic.wonderfrog.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211140003030.12186-100000@enclitic.wonderfrog.net>
Message-ID: <20021114211127.GB31173@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 12:04:26AM -0600, Martin A. Brown wrote:
>   telnet with readline support (on the client!)

Great! I was just looking for precisely that. It sounds like socat is
incredibly useful in many other ways as well. Thanks for the pointer!

John Bethencourt





From hardburn at runbox.com  Thu Nov 14 16:49:04 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:49:04 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] System clock not working
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211141545020.8012-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211141545020.8012-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <200211141649.08525.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 14 November 2002 15:49, you wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Timm Murray wrote:
> > Short of taking out the BIOS battery (which might not help anyway),
> > anybody know of a way to either fix the BIOS or stop make from careing?
>
> Simplest solution would be to run date --set="curentdate and time", ntp to
> make the time exact, then hwclock --systohc to set the BIOS clock.  ntp
> will refuse to set the clock if there is too much difference between ntp
> time and your system time to prevent your system being screwed by a bogus
> or broken ntp server.

Thanks, that fixed it.

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, 
then the first woodpeckert to come along would destroy civilization.
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From rferguson at voyager.net  Fri Nov 15 08:31:20 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:31:20 +0000
Subject: FW: [Madlug] Charter changes?
In-Reply-To: <E18COoh-0006g9-00@fifi.runbox.com>
References: <E18COoh-0006g9-00@fifi.runbox.com>
Message-ID: <200211151431.20724.rferguson@voyager.net>

Thanks for the correction on this.  I know there was a latter post.  There is 
a latter post that tries to minimize this difference, but it is significant.  
Anyone who's ever seen a huge FTP session accross a 10/100Mbs hub will know 
imediately.  The problem is collision domain.  In a shared collision domain 
performance takes a nose dive at about 30-40% saturation.  Beyond that point, 
you start wasting most of the available bandwith on retransmits and runaway 
collisions.  On the other hand though, since DSL is switched, I see 
consistant speeds right about where they cap it regardless of what my 
neighbor does.  Granted, there is the possibility of contention at the 
upstream DS3.  However, that is shared by so many customers that it basically 
doesn't occur.  I can ftp distros to /dev/null all day and all night and it's 
just a drop in the bucket to a DS3.  You do that on a cable modem and 
neighbors take a performance hit.  Also, the DS3 the router will try to que 
traffic.  It's still not the problem of collisions.   Besides in a cable 
modem situation you would have both the upstream pipe limitation and the 
collision domain problem to consider.

Also, the phone company just provides bandwith.  They don't trojan your 
machine with crappy management software and they don't filter.  

Also, on the subject of DHCP, it is possible for the DHCP server to be set to 
force an IP refresh even when you stay connected.  It's just not common for 
them to be set that way.  Probably partially due to an old bug in Win95 that 
causes it to not let go of an address once it gets one.

Anyway...  My suggestion is to choose a DSL serviced neighborhood to move 
into.  Charter is evil.

-ray.

On Thursday 14 November 2002 06:34 pm, Timm Murray wrote:
> > Cable is no worse than DSL in terms of bandwidth allocation.  DSL still
> > oversubscribes at the DSLAM.  Just because you have a 768/768 connection
> > doesn't mean you aren't contending with the 200 others with the same
> > connection on the same router with only a DS3 egress to the SBC backbone.
>
> <>
>
> DSL puts everyone on a switch, cable modems put everyone on a hub.  No
> matter what your neighbors do on their DSL lines, you always have the same
> bandwidth at least up to the DSLAM, so even though you have to share the
> DSLAM's bandwidth, at least you don't share the same physical wire.  On
> cable modems you do.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug

-- 
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.




From agoodno at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 16 13:13:07 2002
From: agoodno at yahoo.com (Andrew Goodnough)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:13:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Re: Charter changes?
Message-ID: <20021116191307.27907.qmail@web41209.mail.yahoo.com>

I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port 80 so I
can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting languages on
my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and support my own
website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company an extra $25 or so
for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs at my disposal on my home
box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast *retrieval* of web pages.  Even
that is in question because at times I get ~35K/s download speeds which is
slower than a regular modem - though it could be the host site.  Is this the
web for the masses?

Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it seems that
TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web hosting, etc.). 
With either company, I need to sign up for "business" service which will
undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill out a form to speak with a
saleperson about your "business needs" - yuckk).

I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct access to
the internet without going through one of these providers?  I mean, *they've*
got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about forming a co-operative
and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement between MADLUG and the
university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to my lack of network hardware
issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just thinking out loud.

-Just a guy trying to get his web on

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From matt at securepipe.com  Sat Nov 16 13:31:40 2002
From: matt at securepipe.com (Matthew Callaway)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:31:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <20021116191307.27907.qmail@web41209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>

First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.

However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
"cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.

Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
mysql, postresql, whatever.

Is there enough interest in this to provide:

1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.

Do we have all of this locally?

My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
provide.

Opinions?

Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.

Matt


On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:

> I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port 80 so I
> can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting languages on
> my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and support my own
> website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company an extra $25 or so
> for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs at my disposal on my home
> box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast *retrieval* of web pages.  Even
> that is in question because at times I get ~35K/s download speeds which is
> slower than a regular modem - though it could be the host site.  Is this the
> web for the masses?
> 
> Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it seems that
> TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web hosting, etc.). 
> With either company, I need to sign up for "business" service which will
> undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill out a form to speak with a
> saleperson about your "business needs" - yuckk).
> 
> I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct access to
> the internet without going through one of these providers?  I mean, *they've*
> got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about forming a co-operative
> and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement between MADLUG and the
> university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to my lack of network hardware
> issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just thinking out loud.
> 
> -Just a guy trying to get his web on
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 




From rferguson at voyager.net  Sat Nov 16 16:26:13 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (raymond)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:26:13 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <200211161626.14000.rferguson@voyager.net>

Part of the reason "business" (i.e. static ip / unrestricted access / balanced 
up to down bandwith ratio) access costs more is due to the nature of bandwith 
costs for the service provider.  Businesses, hosting companies, data centers, 
ASPs etc pay a premium for bandwith.  They usually pay for bandwith based on 
either outbound or inbound traffic depending on which is higher.  This 
incidentally is pretty much the same way providers pay for bandwith.  The 
outbound traffic is usually considerably higher for business customers by a 
significant percentage due to the fact that they are providing content 
services.  This leaves a huge amount of inbound bandwith thats basically 
sitting there unused due to the nature of business usage patterns that there 
providers have already paid for.  Basically it's free inbound bandwith.  They 
have figured out that they can make money on this by selling bandwith dirt 
cheap to ISP users who generate the majority of their traffic in the other 
direction as users of content and services.  The only trick is getting it to 
the home users.  Enter broadband technologies. 

Of course they tend to get bitchy when you start hosting content off the cut 
rate home access broadband lines because your then upping their total 
bandwith cost by contributing to traffic in the outbound direction.  Since 
this wasn't figured into the rate they charge a home user, they attempt to 
discourage it with a variety of techniques.  For instance, my Ameritech DSL 
line is 768 down and about 130 up.  Many companies filter.  Some scan for 
servers and harass users w/ servers.  This is commonplace due to the 
economics involved in providing the bargain rate access bandwith.  However, 
Charter is still the devil since they tend to harass far more than DSL 
providers and they tend to overcommit collision domains.  Also due to the 
nature of cable based broadband, they are unable to provide consistant 
performance.  Add in the fact that they have been know to trojan customers 
with "remote management software", have frequent outages, deplorable support, 
and the fact that they are the evil media cartel, etc.  I see DSL as your 
best choice for home access.

Anyway, I figured that understanding the economics that motivate filtering and 
imbalance access speed offerings might interest someone.

-ray.




On Saturday 16 November 2002 01:31 pm, Matthew Callaway wrote:
> First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
> bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
> deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
> However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
> not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
> system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
> can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
> we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.
>
> However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
> "cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
> technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
> access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
> have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
> Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
> UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
> to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
> bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
> closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.
>
> Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
> that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
> mysql, postresql, whatever.
>
> Is there enough interest in this to provide:
>
> 1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
> 2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
> 3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
> 4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
> 5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
> 6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
> up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
> getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.
>
> Do we have all of this locally?
>
> My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
> who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
> provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
> a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
> servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
> provide.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.
>
> Matt
>
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
> > I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port
> > 80 so I can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting
> > languages on my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and
> > support my own website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company
> > an extra $25 or so for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs
> > at my disposal on my home box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast
> > *retrieval* of web pages.  Even that is in question because at times I
> > get ~35K/s download speeds which is slower than a regular modem - though
> > it could be the host site.  Is this the web for the masses?
> >
> > Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it seems
> > that TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web
> > hosting, etc.). With either company, I need to sign up for "business"
> > service which will undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill
> > out a form to speak with a saleperson about your "business needs" -
> > yuckk).
> >
> > I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct
> > access to the internet without going through one of these providers?  I
> > mean, *they've* got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about
> > forming a co-operative and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement
> > between MADLUG and the university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to
> > my lack of network hardware issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just
> > thinking out loud.
> >
> > -Just a guy trying to get his web on
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug

-- 
"But this one goes to eleven."
-- Nigel Tufnel




From hardburn at runbox.com  Sat Nov 16 17:40:33 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:40:33 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <200211161740.36943.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Along this same vein, this showed up on Larwance Lessig's blog a few days ago:  

http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/archives/2002_11.shtml#000623

A Japaneese company that offers ADSL at 12 Mbps for $26 a month.  No, that's 
not a typo.

The apparent reason for this is that the Japaneese phone infrastructure is 
completely post 1950 and (more importantly) they learned how to deregulate.

Anyways, I've heard of efforts in Madison to setup a city-wide wireless 
network, and would definatly be intrested in helping.

On Saturday 16 November 2002 13:31, Matthew Callaway wrote:
> First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
> bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
> deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
> However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
> not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
> system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
> can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
> we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.
>
> However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
> "cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
> technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
> access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
> have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
> Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
> UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
> to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
> bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
> closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.
>
> Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
> that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
> mysql, postresql, whatever.
>
> Is there enough interest in this to provide:
>
> 1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
> 2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
> 3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
> 4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
> 5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
> 6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
> up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
> getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.
>
> Do we have all of this locally?
>
> My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
> who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
> provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
> a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
> servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
> provide.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.
>
> Matt
>
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
> > I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port
> > 80 so I can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting
> > languages on my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and
> > support my own website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company
> > an extra $25 or so for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs
> > at my disposal on my home box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast
> > *retrieval* of web pages.  Even that is in question because at times I
> > get ~35K/s download speeds which is slower than a regular modem - though
> > it could be the host site.  Is this the web for the masses?
> >
> > Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it seems
> > that TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web
> > hosting, etc.). With either company, I need to sign up for "business"
> > service which will undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill
> > out a form to speak with a saleperson about your "business needs" -
> > yuckk).
> >
> > I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct
> > access to the internet without going through one of these providers?  I
> > mean, *they've* got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about
> > forming a co-operative and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement
> > between MADLUG and the university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to
> > my lack of network hardware issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just
> > thinking out loud.
> >
> > -Just a guy trying to get his web on
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
HURD Beer:  Long advertised by the popular and politically active 
GNU brewery, so far it has more head than body.  The GNU brewery is 
mostly known for printing complete brewing instructions on every can, 
which contains hops, malt, barley, and yeast . . . not yet fermented.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj3W13QACgkQqpueKcacfLRK8wCgpqDv7KMCGUv73w5pYQ1T2/W4
WK0An0eF5ATsahNHvMRivVn0+xBGVavB
=Oou8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From sephtin at techgodz.com  Sat Nov 16 18:40:04 2002
From: sephtin at techgodz.com (John)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:40:04 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c28dd1$e05da530$6401a8c0@john>

I like the idea, and would be interested in co-loc (for backup purposes)...
However I have TDS (residential service), and I have web, smtp, ssh, ftp,
etc.

They're not blocking ports.  Did someone read or hear that they were going
to start?  Please share the source of that info!

Thanks,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Callaway" <matt at securepipe.com>
To: "Andrew Goodnough" <agoodno at yahoo.com>
Cc: <madlug at madisonlinux.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:31 PM
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"


> First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
> bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
> deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
> However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
> not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
> system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
> can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
> we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.
>
> However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
> "cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
> technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
> access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
> have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
> Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
> UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
> to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
> bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
> closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.
>
> Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
> that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
> mysql, postresql, whatever.
>
> Is there enough interest in this to provide:
>
> 1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
> 2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
> 3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
> 4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
> 5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
> 6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
> up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
> getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.
>
> Do we have all of this locally?
>
> My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
> who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
> provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
> a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
> servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
> provide.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
>
> > I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port
80 so I
> > can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting
languages on
> > my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and support my
own
> > website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company an extra $25
or so
> > for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs at my disposal on
my home
> > box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast *retrieval* of web
pages.  Even
> > that is in question because at times I get ~35K/s download speeds which
is
> > slower than a regular modem - though it could be the host site.  Is this
the
> > web for the masses?
> >
> > Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it
seems that
> > TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web hosting,
etc.).
> > With either company, I need to sign up for "business" service which will
> > undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill out a form to speak
with a
> > saleperson about your "business needs" - yuckk).
> >
> > I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct
access to
> > the internet without going through one of these providers?  I mean,
*they've*
> > got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about forming a
co-operative
> > and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement between MADLUG and the
> > university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to my lack of network
hardware
> > issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just thinking out loud.
> >
> > -Just a guy trying to get his web on
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>




From agoodno at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 16 18:51:45 2002
From: agoodno at yahoo.com (Andrew Goodnough)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:51:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <001a01c28dd1$e05da530$6401a8c0@john>
Message-ID: <20021117005145.89593.qmail@web41208.mail.yahoo.com>

http://www.tdsmetro.com/internet/dsl/faq.shtml

*****
Last FAQ on the page is:
Can I do my own Web Hosting?

No. Our Residential DSL service does not allow Web Hosting. If you have a need
to host a web site please contact us regarding our pricing for Business DSL
packages.
*****

Maybe this is coming or maybe this is their policy but they have no way (or are
uninclined) to police it.  Either way, at least for now, you've got a good
deal.


Andy

--- John <sephtin at techgodz.com> wrote:
> I like the idea, and would be interested in co-loc (for backup purposes)...
> However I have TDS (residential service), and I have web, smtp, ssh, ftp,
> etc.
> 
> They're not blocking ports.  Did someone read or hear that they were going
> to start?  Please share the source of that info!
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Callaway" <matt at securepipe.com>
> To: "Andrew Goodnough" <agoodno at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <madlug at madisonlinux.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:31 PM
> Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
> 
> 
> > First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
> > bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
> > deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
> > However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
> > not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
> > system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
> > can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
> > we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.
> >
> > However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
> > "cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
> > technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
> > access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
> > have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
> > Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
> > UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
> > to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
> > bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
> > closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.
> >
> > Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
> > that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
> > mysql, postresql, whatever.
> >
> > Is there enough interest in this to provide:
> >
> > 1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
> > 2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
> > 3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
> > 4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
> > 5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
> > 6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
> > up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
> > getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.
> >
> > Do we have all of this locally?
> >
> > My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
> > who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
> > provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
> > a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
> > servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
> > provide.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> > Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
> >
> > > I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port
> 80 so I
> > > can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting
> languages on
> > > my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and support my
> own
> > > website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company an extra $25
> or so
> > > for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs at my disposal on
> my home
> > > box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast *retrieval* of web
> pages.  Even
> > > that is in question because at times I get ~35K/s download speeds which
> is
> > > slower than a regular modem - though it could be the host site.  Is this
> the
> > > web for the masses?
> > >
> > > Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it
> seems that
> > > TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web hosting,
> etc.).
> > > With either company, I need to sign up for "business" service which will
> > > undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill out a form to speak
> with a
> > > saleperson about your "business needs" - yuckk).
> > >
> > > I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct
> access to
> > > the internet without going through one of these providers?  I mean,
> *they've*
> > > got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about forming a
> co-operative
> > > and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement between MADLUG and the
> > > university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to my lack of network
> hardware
> > > issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just thinking out loud.
> > >
> > > -Just a guy trying to get his web on
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From rhayden at geek.net  Sat Nov 16 19:54:05 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:54:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <200211161626.14000.rferguson@voyager.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211161940410.22541-100000@titan.odeon.net>

Setting up a "colo" is fairly straight forward.  Get some kind of
connection and split the costs of the connection, infrastructure, and
space/power.  The question comes is, do you want to set up a single large
common server and do either virtual machines or shared workspace, or just
let everyone put their own box in to be responsible for.

Connection costs are probably going to be in the $200/mo range (ballpark)
for a 768/768 "business" class DSL line with enough IP addresses to
support it.  That may not be enough outbound bandwidth if anyone is going
to do any serious hosting, however.  Figure closer to $500/mo for T1-speed
connectivity over DSL.  It should have a cross-connect into the city-wide
wireless network being put in, but that's fairly easy.

There are some companies out there that will provide a box you can use all
to your own.  That may be another option, although it wouldn't be local,
you would have hardened facilities, backups, remote hands, etc.  May not
be cost-effective, however, without a business model to support it.

I have no idea how the UW might be able to "officially" support a project
like this without some form of academic research wrapped around it.
Obviously there is plenty of bandwidth and space available, it's a
question of just finding a sponsor; maybe an academic club associated with
computer science or business could sponsor it as $0-sum project that pays
for itself and provide a couple racks worth of space for coop PCs.




From ted at hiegel.net  Sat Nov 16 21:28:32 2002
From: ted at hiegel.net (Ted Cohen)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:28:32 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021116203244.0358e1b0@pop.terracom.net>

i have what you are asking for setup, running and looking for co-op members 
to share expenses with.  i have a 19" rack with 8 servers in an office in 
the basement of my home. i have  2 static ip addresses from tds, one sdsl 
line.  i am running bind, php, apache, sendmail plus some other things.  i 
need co-op members to share the costs with and when we have enough members 
i would like to set up a second site using a different back bone provider. 
tds has had fires (or so i was told) in their switch facility twice within 
the last year that have caused network outages.  i don't want to be off 
line again.  later, if we got enough co-op members , we could upgrade to a 
T1 at the primary location.

i also have contacts within tds which may not be worth a lot because it is 
still tds with all of their faults, but i  see tds as the best option in 
madison and it can be very difficult to talk to them on the phone if you go 
through normal channels so i find my contacts are of  at least some value.

i asked around at steep and brew meetings when i set this up and got a luke 
warm reception.  the problem was always how do you determine what the costs 
are, plus no one wanted to be the first,  lets just say that with  a line, 
tax, electricity and what have you, the costs are $200 per month,  the 
first guy in (besides me) has to pay $100 per month, when a second joins 
are share drops to $67 each etc.  nobody wanted to join me at those kinds 
of prices so i just did it myself and am not disappointed with anything but 
what it costs me each month.  have we reached critical mass?  enough 
potential members to start the reaction?  do we want to divide the costs 
each month or have a flat fee per member with any excess going to upgrade 
equipment and lines?  getting servers is not too tough, but rack mount 
servers can be expensive as are things like kvms (key board video mouse 
multiplexer) so you can jump from server to server without climbing into 
the back of the rack and moving plugs.  the co-op would also need to 
address high bandwidth consumption and appropriate use by members.  i don't 
want my equipment seized by the feds because some one was selling child 
porn at our ip address.

physical access to the server room is easy and discrete.  i am centrally 
located. about 8 blocks south of  steep and brew in an area where there is 
always on street parking.  i could not deal people coming and going daily, 
but most server work could be performed remotely so i only envision access 
being required to add or swap servers.

if any one is interested in dsl from tds or in joining me in a co-operative 
venture or domain registration, domain hosting (the dns part as opposed to 
the web server part), dynamic dns, web hosting, off site file backup, 
primary or backup mailserver on a cost sharing basis please contact me.  i 
can have your website and mail running by midnight eastern time (when the 
root name servers are loaded).  i just want to share costs both monetary 
and technical (ie in figuring out how to install and configure various 
servers). i am not looking to make a profit.  i would rather invest in more 
ups (say 4 hours instead of 20 minutes) and backup servers, raid, faster 
servers and faster lines as more members join.

if you have a commercial  ip connection with a static ip address and are 
willing to back me up in exchange for my providing you with backup again, 
please contact me.




From jyan at stat.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 17 16:46:15 2002
From: jyan at stat.wisc.edu (Jun Yan)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:46:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] variables in make
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021020093018.021c6ba0@mailhost.rkf.ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211171640300.3944-100000@istat02.stat.wisc.edu>

This is a target in my Makefile:

pkg-%:
	tar zxf $*.tar.gz; \
	MYPKG="`echo $* | cut -d'_' -f1,1`"; \
	echo '-------$(MYPKG)---'; \

When I do 

make pkg-abc_0.1

I want MYPKG to have value 'abc', but it seems to be empty. How can I
get the expected value in MYPKG?

Thanks,

Jun




From carder at cae.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 17 18:15:24 2002
From: carder at cae.wisc.edu (Dale W. Carder)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:15:24 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative
In-Reply-To: <200211161740.36943.hardburn@runbox.com>; from hardburn@runbox.com on Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 05:40:33PM -0600
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211161318290.28822-100000@numair.wi.securepipe.com> <200211161740.36943.hardburn@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <20021117181523.B16234@cae.wisc.edu>

Thus spake Timm Murray (hardburn at runbox.com):
> 
> Anyways, I've heard of efforts in Madison to setup a city-wide wireless 
> network, and would definatly be intrested in helping.

Start cutting down trees.  Some other individuals and I have been persuing
the idea, but our ariel photography tells the truth.  The real motivator 
for city-wide wireless will have to be economic due to geograpical and thus
fiscal contraints.  And if you think the collision domain is a problem on
cable media, add hidden nodes into the game.

If you are really interested in more talk about wireless, let me know.

I also thought about the co-op mechanism for hosting.  When I really 
thought about adding all the costs involved, I found reasonably priced
hosting services (i will refrain from business plugs) with much less hassle,
better performance, due in part of their economy of scale.

Dale



From chris at clotho.com  Mon Nov 18 07:16:13 2002
From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:16:13 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
In-Reply-To: <20021117005145.89593.qmail@web41208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021117005145.89593.qmail@web41208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DD8E81D.9050209@clotho.com>

You're almost entirely right, but just to clarify, TDS residential DSL 
does offer piddly web hosting to customers on personalpages.tds.net. 
It's static content only (therefore useless to me) with a pretty small 
monthly bandwidth cap, but it's OK for some family photos or a resume or 
something.  That FAQ entry, of course, refers to hosting on your home 
computer.

Chris

On 11/16/02 6:51 PM, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
> http://www.tdsmetro.com/internet/dsl/faq.shtml
> 
> *****
> Last FAQ on the page is:
> Can I do my own Web Hosting?
> 
> No. Our Residential DSL service does not allow Web Hosting. If you have a need
> to host a web site please contact us regarding our pricing for Business DSL
> packages.
> *****
> 
> Maybe this is coming or maybe this is their policy but they have no way (or are
> uninclined) to police it.  Either way, at least for now, you've got a good
> deal.
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> --- John <sephtin at techgodz.com> wrote:
> 
>>I like the idea, and would be interested in co-loc (for backup purposes)...
>>However I have TDS (residential service), and I have web, smtp, ssh, ftp,
>>etc.
>>
>>They're not blocking ports.  Did someone read or hear that they were going
>>to start?  Please share the source of that info!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>John
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Matthew Callaway" <matt at securepipe.com>
>>To: "Andrew Goodnough" <agoodno at yahoo.com>
>>Cc: <madlug at madisonlinux.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:31 PM
>>Subject: [Madlug] Madison Network Cooperative: was "Charter changes?"
>>
>>
>>
>>>First off, let me say that I too am frustrated with the situation that
>>>bandwidth providers have created in this country.  It seems like a raw
>>>deal to be unable to expect inbound access to your home network.
>>>However, I have slowly come to accept the fact that "the internet" is
>>>not an infrastructure for "the masses" (yet).  It's not like the phone
>>>system.  We have not yet reached the point where network connectivity
>>>can be expected like water, sewer, power and phone connections.  Thus,
>>>we are at the mercy of the companies that provide access.
>>>
>>>However, here's an idea that might gain some favor.  Let's form a
>>>"cooperative".  I'm sure that this list has many members who are
>>>technically capable, and want to run their own servers for public
>>>access, but cannot afford to pay the business rates to ISPs.  Why not
>>>have MadLUG purchase a business account from TDS (I'd vote against
>>>Charter because they I hate them), or perhaps work through DoIT or the
>>>UW somehow.  MadLUG can collect subscription fees from members who wish
>>>to be a part of the cooperative, and these funds can pay for the
>>>bandwidth.  Surely some network savvy members of the group can find a
>>>closet somewhere to run the line, and we can build a bunch of servers.
>>>
>>>Paying members of the cooperative get ssh shell access to web servers
>>>that run the latest required software: php, apache, boa, python, perl,
>>>mysql, postresql, whatever.
>>>
>>>Is there enough interest in this to provide:
>>>
>>>1) Someone to work out a deal with TDS or the UW
>>>2) Someone to provide a physical location for a server rack
>>>3) Volunteers to maintain the servers
>>>4) Members to actually subscribe to this "cooperative"
>>>5) A treasurer to collect the $ and pay the bill
>>>6) Maybe a lawyer to keep this on the up and up, and make sure the set
>>>up is tight and valid enough to prevent the treasurer or MadLUG from
>>>getting screwed by lazy members that just decide to stop paying.
>>>
>>>Do we have all of this locally?
>>>
>>>My guess is that the answer is yes.  On top of all this, I know someone
>>>who might be reading this who would love to have this cooperative
>>>provide a land line to the Mesh Madison wireless group.  This could be
>>>a way for Madisonians to get broad wireless access, shell accounts, web
>>>servers, etc. for a much more reasonable price than the local ISPs can
>>>provide.
>>>
>>>Opinions?
>>>
>>>Am I being naive, or too idealistic?  Let's go grass roots here.
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Andrew Goodnough wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think it's wrong that they block ports at all.  First they block port
>>
>>80 so I
>>
>>>>can't run a web server and then they don't support any scripting
>>
>>languages on
>>
>>>>my "personal" webspace.  So I have the skills to build and support my
>>
>>own
>>
>>>>website, using say JSP, but I have to pay another company an extra $25
>>
>>or so
>>
>>>>for JSP support and 25MB of space?  When I have gigs at my disposal on
>>
>>my home
>>
>>>>box?  In the end, I'm paying $33.99/mo for fast *retrieval* of web
>>
>>pages.  Even
>>
>>>>that is in question because at times I get ~35K/s download speeds which
>>
>>is
>>
>>>>slower than a regular modem - though it could be the host site.  Is this
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>web for the masses?
>>>>
>>>>Partly due to this post, I went searching for an alternative and it
>>
>>seems that
>>
>>>>TDS Metrocom's DSL service is similar (blocking personal web hosting,
>>
>>etc.).
>>
>>>>With either company, I need to sign up for "business" service which will
>>>>undoubtedly cost much more (both sites make you fill out a form to speak
>>
>>with a
>>
>>>>saleperson about your "business needs" - yuckk).
>>>>
>>>>I'm not a network guy, but does anyone know of any way to get direct
>>
>>access to
>>
>>>>the internet without going through one of these providers?  I mean,
>>
>>*they've*
>>
>>>>got access to the internet backbone, right?  What about forming a
>>
>>co-operative
>>
>>>>and negotiating a price?  What about an agreement between MADLUG and the
>>>>university?  Maybe these ideas are idiotic (due to my lack of network
>>
>>hardware
>>
>>>>issues, etc - I'm a developer) but I'm just thinking out loud.
>>>>
>>>>-Just a guy trying to get his web on
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
>>>>http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
>>>>http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
>>>http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From ted at hiegel.net  Mon Nov 18 07:40:05 2002
From: ted at hiegel.net (Ted Cohen)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:40:05 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] charter firewall?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118071145.03600bc0@pop.terracom.net>

At 12:48:27 -0600 (CST) Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Andy Koch wrote:
 >Down here in Fitchburg I noticed about a week ago Charter dropped their
 >firewall completely. I first noticed it when I started getting random
 >people trying to use my Linux box as a mail forwarder. As of right now
 >my machine is not firewalled. I would anticipate that it is going to
 >change in the near future.

i have never had cable, but i always envisioned it as a bunch of neighbors 
on a hub, each with their own dhcp provided ip address. i imagine that they 
are connected to the backbone via some kind of a link that goes through the 
local cable company interconnect.  while a cable company could provide 
firewall protection somewhere along the link to the backbone, probably at 
the interconnect, that would not protect you from the guy next door that 
wants to use your box as you describe.  i always thought they provided that 
protection on the cd they ask you to install on your windows or mac 
machine, the ones we have read about with the trojan software.  if the 
company did provide firewall protection some where upstream from you, while 
working for the majority of their consumers just trying to surf the web, 
would customers trying to do something interesting complain about what was 
blocked?  for the most part, i would think they would try to firewall their 
customers at the customers home so that if a knowledgeable customer wanted 
to pass something that most customers would not want to let through, they 
could by turning off the cable company supplied software firewall.  i would 
be interested in hearing a technical explanation of the cable system from 
some one that actually knows, but from my perspective, if andy wants to be 
protected, he needs to do it in his home, either by configuring the 
firewall protections provided within linux or by spending less then $50 and 
buying a soho router with a firewall built in.  i have used linksys, dlink, 
3com and netgear versions and am satisfied.  i use the shields up web site 
at gibson research to test them and appear to be well protected.  has 
anyone got a good report from gibson and been successfully attacked anyway?




From mrrehbein at myrealbox.com  Mon Nov 18 09:54:59 2002
From: mrrehbein at myrealbox.com (Michael Rehbein)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:54:59 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] making a boot disk?
Message-ID: <E18Do5j-0007z6-00@franz.stat.wisc.edu>

how do you make a boot disk?

and for the hard part....

how do you do it without a floppy drive?

i have a motherboard (asus p4t-e) that has an odd floppy drive controller, 
and linux can't see it, but it can boot from it.
i think i have patched the kernel, but because i want to leave my mbr alone 
(WinXP) i would need to make a floppy or bootable cd to boot off of.  i can 
probably use rawwrite in windows to put on image to a disk, but i need a bit 
of help on making the image.

so far, i've found how to make a bootable floppy and then an image from that. 
but i'm looking for make an image of a bootable floppy, without the floppy 
drive.



From ricko73 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 10:06:58 2002
From: ricko73 at yahoo.com (Hartman Darrick)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:06:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] making a boot disk?
In-Reply-To: <E18Do5j-0007z6-00@franz.stat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021118160658.73694.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com>

why don't you just use the windows XP boot manager as
described in the multiboot howtos?  Install LILO (or
Grub) into your Linux partition, then add that to your
Windows boot manager.

Darrick

--- Michael Rehbein <mrrehbein at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> how do you make a boot disk?
> 
> and for the hard part....
> 
> how do you do it without a floppy drive?
> 
> i have a motherboard (asus p4t-e) that has an odd
> floppy drive controller, 
> and linux can't see it, but it can boot from it.
> i think i have patched the kernel, but because i
> want to leave my mbr alone 
> (WinXP) i would need to make a floppy or bootable cd
> to boot off of.  i can 
> probably use rawwrite in windows to put on image to
> a disk, but i need a bit 
> of help on making the image.
> 
> so far, i've found how to make a bootable floppy and
> then an image from that. 
> but i'm looking for make an image of a bootable
> floppy, without the floppy 
> drive.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From i_root_you at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 10:50:35 2002
From: i_root_you at yahoo.com (root root)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:50:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
Message-ID: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer with Matrox G550?

And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my gateway and i useing internet shareing to my linux box and for some reason on my linux box it won't go online?

 

I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it tell me when i ping fmy gateway it underreachable?

 

 

any ideas?


Root


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From billf at inxpress.net  Mon Nov 18 12:24:53 2002
From: billf at inxpress.net (Bill Fredrickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:24:53 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
References: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DD93075.57B8ED20@inxpress.net>

I'm running a triple head [3 19" view sonic monitors] on a 1G Athalon
system using an ATI Radeon 8500 LE and a PCI GeForce4 MX 420. I've had
no problems with set up. Suse 8.1 has all the drivers and the Xinerama
software for crating a single desktop that spans all three monitors. The
only thing I found that has to be resolved is the choice of video cards.
Not all cards will play nicely with others. It took a bit of trial and
error before I found two cards that would work on my system. My thanks
to CompUsa for their willingness to let me return cards that would not
play well together. If your Matrox has dual outputs it should work since
the latest stuff will recognize the dual paths on the card. The other
option is to find another card that will play well with it on your
system. For best results I found that both cards need to have similar
features and capacity. With a monitor on each card things will work well
if there are no confilicts in the system's bios, card interface API's,
or the drivers. 

Good luck.  Once you get used to [spoiled by] all that extra desktop
space its hard to believe you actually got along with only a single
monitor ;))

Bill


root root wrote:
> 
> Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer with Matrox G550?
> 
> And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my gateway and i useing
> internet shareing to my linux box and for some reason on my linux box
> it won't go online?
> 
> 
> 
> I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it tell me when i ping
> fmy gateway it underreachable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> Root
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site



From mafriedel at charter.net  Mon Nov 18 11:05:58 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:05:58 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
In-Reply-To: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1037639158.20821.7.camel@mark-friedel.wpsic.com>

Go get the "MGAPDESK" software from Matrox.  I use two monitors on my
G450 card at work with no problems.  MGApdesk will set up the
Xfree86.config file for you for the settings you want.  

I use RedHat 8.0.  I use the right screen for VMware, and the left for
linux.  It works awesome.


Internet sharing through windows -- just say no.  Ewwww.

Mark

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 10:50, root root wrote:
> 
> Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer with Matrox G550?
> 
> And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my gateway and i useing internet shareing to my linux box and for some reason on my linux box it won't go online?
> 
>  
> 
> I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it tell me when i ping fmy gateway it underreachable?
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Root
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site




From kpatenaude at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 11:44:23 2002
From: kpatenaude at yahoo.com (Kenny Patenaude)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] charter firewall?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118071145.03600bc0@pop.terracom.net>
Message-ID: <20021118174423.7712.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com>

My experience, with charter, is that they are blocking
ports some how when they give out IP's. I am not sure
how.  But with my little network at home I can't setup
a Peer to Peer network when the charter modem is
attached to the switch.  I know I have it setup
correctly because when I disconnect the cablem modem
from the switch and reboot the windows workstations,
which then create their own IP world, it works fine.
--- Ted Cohen <ted at hiegel.net> wrote:
> At 12:48:27 -0600 (CST) Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Andy Koch
> wrote:
>  >Down here in Fitchburg I noticed about a week ago
> Charter dropped their
>  >firewall completely. I first noticed it when I
> started getting random
>  >people trying to use my Linux box as a mail
> forwarder. As of right now
>  >my machine is not firewalled. I would anticipate
> that it is going to
>  >change in the near future.
> 
> i have never had cable, but i always envisioned it
> as a bunch of neighbors 
> on a hub, each with their own dhcp provided ip
> address. i imagine that they 
> are connected to the backbone via some kind of a
> link that goes through the 
> local cable company interconnect.  while a cable
> company could provide 
> firewall protection somewhere along the link to the
> backbone, probably at 
> the interconnect, that would not protect you from
> the guy next door that 
> wants to use your box as you describe.  i always
> thought they provided that 
> protection on the cd they ask you to install on your
> windows or mac 
> machine, the ones we have read about with the trojan
> software.  if the 
> company did provide firewall protection some where
> upstream from you, while 
> working for the majority of their consumers just
> trying to surf the web, 
> would customers trying to do something interesting
> complain about what was 
> blocked?  for the most part, i would think they
> would try to firewall their 
> customers at the customers home so that if a
> knowledgeable customer wanted 
> to pass something that most customers would not want
> to let through, they 
> could by turning off the cable company supplied
> software firewall.  i would 
> be interested in hearing a technical explanation of
> the cable system from 
> some one that actually knows, but from my
> perspective, if andy wants to be 
> protected, he needs to do it in his home, either by
> configuring the 
> firewall protections provided within linux or by
> spending less then $50 and 
> buying a soho router with a firewall built in.  i
> have used linksys, dlink, 
> 3com and netgear versions and am satisfied.  i use
> the shields up web site 
> at gibson research to test them and appear to be
> well protected.  has 
> anyone got a good report from gibson and been
> successfully attacked anyway?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug


=====
Kenny Patenaude
kpatenaude at yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From ricko73 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 11:45:41 2002
From: ricko73 at yahoo.com (Hartman Darrick)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:45:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
In-Reply-To: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021118174541.84079.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com>

It sounds like your network is not setup properly. 
Are the modules loaded for the network card? (or
compiled into the kernel)  Do you see any messages
during init? (dmesg will show you)

What's connecting the Linux box to the Win2kPro box?
(meaning do you use a hub or are you using a second
NIC in the win2k box?)

Why not set up the Linux box as the gateway or use a
Linksys type 4 port cable/dsl router as your gateway
instead?

We need more info to help answer your question

Darrick

--- root root <i_root_you at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer
> with Matrox G550?
> 
> And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my
> gateway and i useing internet shareing to my linux
> box and for some reason on my linux box it won't go
> online?
> 
>  
> 
> I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it
> tell me when i ping fmy gateway it underreachable?
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Root
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From JWargula at mge.com  Mon Nov 18 11:46:00 2002
From: JWargula at mge.com (JWargula at mge.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:46:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Linux Training
Message-ID: <02Nov18.114620cst.119145@mail.mge.com>

Are there any good/recommended Linux training programs offered within the
Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago areas?  I'm looking for something that can
enable me to build and manage an appropriate server for Oracle 8i.





From ricko73 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 11:50:21 2002
From: ricko73 at yahoo.com (Hartman Darrick)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:50:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Friday's meeting
Message-ID: <20021118175021.84020.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com>

I wasn't able to attend the last meeting but this
Friday looks promising.  There was no email detailing
any of the specifics after the last meeting?  Were
upcoming presentations discussed (PHP, mysql etc)?

Anyone know of any big events Friday that us out of
towner's should be aware of?

Thanks,

Darrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From rhayden at geek.net  Mon Nov 18 11:53:27 2002
From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:53:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] charter firewall?
In-Reply-To: <20021118174423.7712.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211181152100.2041-100000@titan.odeon.net>

Sounds like your boxes are DHCPing an IP address on a seperate subnet, so
you have to send them out to charter's gateway router and back.  When the
cable modem is disconnected and you reboot, you get IPs on the same subnet
and hence no blocking.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Kenny Patenaude wrote:

> My experience, with charter, is that they are blocking
> ports some how when they give out IP's. I am not sure
> how.  But with my little network at home I can't setup
> a Peer to Peer network when the charter modem is
> attached to the switch.  I know I have it setup
> correctly because when I disconnect the cablem modem
> from the switch and reboot the windows workstations,
> which then create their own IP world, it works fine.
> --- Ted Cohen <ted at hiegel.net> wrote:
> > At 12:48:27 -0600 (CST) Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Andy Koch
> > wrote:
> >  >Down here in Fitchburg I noticed about a week ago
> > Charter dropped their
> >  >firewall completely. I first noticed it when I
> > started getting random
> >  >people trying to use my Linux box as a mail
> > forwarder. As of right now
> >  >my machine is not firewalled. I would anticipate
> > that it is going to
> >  >change in the near future.
> >
> > i have never had cable, but i always envisioned it
> > as a bunch of neighbors
> > on a hub, each with their own dhcp provided ip
> > address. i imagine that they
> > are connected to the backbone via some kind of a
> > link that goes through the
> > local cable company interconnect.  while a cable
> > company could provide
> > firewall protection somewhere along the link to the
> > backbone, probably at
> > the interconnect, that would not protect you from
> > the guy next door that
> > wants to use your box as you describe.  i always
> > thought they provided that
> > protection on the cd they ask you to install on your
> > windows or mac
> > machine, the ones we have read about with the trojan
> > software.  if the
> > company did provide firewall protection some where
> > upstream from you, while
> > working for the majority of their consumers just
> > trying to surf the web,
> > would customers trying to do something interesting
> > complain about what was
> > blocked?  for the most part, i would think they
> > would try to firewall their
> > customers at the customers home so that if a
> > knowledgeable customer wanted
> > to pass something that most customers would not want
> > to let through, they
> > could by turning off the cable company supplied
> > software firewall.  i would
> > be interested in hearing a technical explanation of
> > the cable system from
> > some one that actually knows, but from my
> > perspective, if andy wants to be
> > protected, he needs to do it in his home, either by
> > configuring the
> > firewall protections provided within linux or by
> > spending less then $50 and
> > buying a soho router with a firewall built in.  i
> > have used linksys, dlink,
> > 3com and netgear versions and am satisfied.  i use
> > the shields up web site
> > at gibson research to test them and appear to be
> > well protected.  has
> > anyone got a good report from gibson and been
> > successfully attacked anyway?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> > http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>
> =====
> Kenny Patenaude
> kpatenaude at yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>




From gmurie at ameritech.net  Mon Nov 18 12:14:28 2002
From: gmurie at ameritech.net (Glen Murie)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:14:28 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Job Hunting
Message-ID: <61SOH4W94MLWKJC87NXWA6A084O.3dd92e04@admin1>

Hey all, I'm not begging on my knees or anything (well OK yes I am) but I've been hunting for work in the Madison area for a few months now and I'm getting back almost nothing. 
I'm still working in Milwaukee, but my current job might disappear out from under me at any time. Usually all I had to do in the past was spread around a few resumes and hit 
the headhunters and I'd have a job within weeks.

Things appear to be a bit more grim now.

I'd like to know if there's any resources in the Madison area that I can take advantage of beyond the online jobs boards. To my shame, I do not have a Bachelors, so many of the 
jobs at the UW are closed to me. I have a lot of post High School education, but it's schmeared across three different educational institutions, and only amounts to an 
Associates and a whale-load of college credits.

Any advice?





From don_schultz at panvera.com  Mon Nov 18 12:17:54 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:17:54 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Job Hunting
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE199@mercury.panvera.com>

Gooooooooood luck. :/ it may or may not surprise you that most employers
in madison mostly require a degree of some sort beyond associate's to
even look at you. You know, it's the whole "there's a university in
town, if I need a employee I'll hire a graduate" because we can start
'em cheap and low as hell on the ladder because they don't know what to
expect in the real job world.

There's a plethora of techno-talent in this city; most of the smartest
though are stuck working at wendy's or something because they're not fit
to work with madison's "academic elite" :/ it's sad...

.: Don Schultz
:: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
:: Panvera, LLC
:: 501 Charmany Dr.
:: Madison, WI 53719
 \\
 :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
 :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Murie [mailto:gmurie at ameritech.net] 
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:14 PM
> To: madlug at madisonlinux.org
> Subject: [Madlug] Job Hunting
> 
> 
> Hey all, I'm not begging on my knees or anything (well OK yes 
> I am) but I've been hunting for work in the Madison area for 
> a few months now and I'm getting back almost nothing. 
> I'm still working in Milwaukee, but my current job might 
> disappear out from under me at any time. Usually all I had to 
> do in the past was spread around a few resumes and hit 
> the headhunters and I'd have a job within weeks.
> 
> Things appear to be a bit more grim now.
> 
> I'd like to know if there's any resources in the Madison area 
> that I can take advantage of beyond the online jobs boards. 
> To my shame, I do not have a Bachelors, so many of the 
> jobs at the UW are closed to me. I have a lot of post High 
> School education, but it's schmeared across three different 
> educational institutions, and only amounts to an 
> Associates and a whale-load of college credits.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org 
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/m> adlug
> 



From i_root_you at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 12:39:56 2002
From: i_root_you at yahoo.com (root root)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
In-Reply-To: <20021118174541.84079.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021118183956.52602.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


 
 Hartman Darrick <ricko73 at yahoo.com> wrote:
It sounds like your network is not setup properly. 
Are the modules loaded for the network card? (or
compiled into the kernel) Do you see any messages
during init? (dmesg will show you)

What's connecting the Linux box to the Win2kPro box?
(meaning do you use a hub or are you using a second
NIC in the win2k box?)

Why not set up the Linux box as the gateway or use a
Linksys type 4 port cable/dsl router as your gateway
instead?

We need more info to help answer your question

Darrick

--- root root wrote:
> 
> Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer
> with Matrox G550?
> 
> And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my
> gateway and i useing internet shareing to my linux
> box and for some reason on my linux box it won't go
> online?
> 
> 
> 
> I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it
> tell me when i ping fmy gateway it underreachable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Root
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

 

 

I use direcway and tech support told me that i can't not use a router with my dsl. I have a 2-way modem right now but there a 3-way modem comeing out in jan 2003 sometime i think for $500.00 for the home usr i hope it less then that.

 

 

Anyone in this linux group a unix hacker?


Root


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From mafriedel at charter.net  Mon Nov 18 13:49:00 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 13:49:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
In-Reply-To: <20021118183956.52602.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021118183956.52602.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1037648940.20822.18.camel@mark-friedel.wpsic.com>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 12:39, root root wrote:
> 
>  
>  Hartman Darrick <ricko73 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> It sounds like your network is not setup properly. 
> Are the modules loaded for the network card? (or
> compiled into the kernel) Do you see any messages
> during init? (dmesg will show you)
> 
> What's connecting the Linux box to the Win2kPro box?
> (meaning do you use a hub or are you using a second
> NIC in the win2k box?)
> 
> Why not set up the Linux box as the gateway or use a
> Linksys type 4 port cable/dsl router as your gateway
> instead?
> 
> We need more info to help answer your question
> 
> Darrick
> 
> --- root root wrote:
> > 
> > Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer
> > with Matrox G550?
> > 
> > And my other probs.I have windows 2000 pro as my
> > gateway and i useing internet shareing to my linux
> > box and for some reason on my linux box it won't go
> > online?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I try reinstalling my internet shareing and not it
> > tell me when i ping fmy gateway it underreachable?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > any ideas?
> > 
> > 
> > Root
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I use direcway and tech support told me that i can't not use a router with my dsl. I have a 2-way modem right now but there a 3-way modem comeing out in jan 2003 sometime i think for $500.00 for the home usr i hope it less then that.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Anyone in this linux group a unix hacker?
> 
> 
> Root

Your first problem is that you asked tech support.  Never volunteer
anything to tech support.  As far as I know the use of a router is
against ALL of this area's broadband ISP terms of service (for home
accounts).  Actually, technically using "internet sharing" is also
probably against your TOS.  Not that anyone really cares, but don't try
to ask them for support.

Therefore, either: (in order of complexity)

1. Buy a router from Best Buy for $29.99 (after rebate)
2. Set up an old 486 with freesco (http://www.freesco.org)
3. Set up the Linux box for forwarding.




From zoltan47 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 15:16:42 2002
From: zoltan47 at yahoo.com (Steve Krause)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:16:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] **Meeting Reminder**
Message-ID: <20021118211642.80052.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

Just a reminder that we have a Friday meeting at Steep
& Brew (7pm, State Street). Bring your
friends--convert them to Linux! Hope to see you all
there.

Last time we had lively discussions on all sorts of
topics. Regarding upcoming presentations, we have a
couple things in the works, but most won't be ready
until early 2003, I expect. If *you* have a topic you
would like to present on, either as a more informal
thing at a Friday social meeting, or as something for
a Tuesday evening meeting at the Comp. Sci. building,
let me know by email, and let's work it out.

Just the other day I installed scoop (which runs such
sites as www.kuro5hin.org) on a spare box; it wasn't
nearly as painful as I expected, and for anyone who is
interested in setting up a discussion/forum site, I
can talk about that a bit more on Friday.

--Steve Krause


PS: As for parking/traffic concerns:

I checked the UW calendar. There are women's hockey
and volleyball matches, but they're 1) in Middleton
and 2) at the Field House. The Kohl Center doesn't
seem to have anything planned. There is a movie at
Vilas Hall, and a theater performance at the
UW-Theater--those should not impact parking *that
much*, but I thought I'd warn you.

Verdi's "Il Trovatore" is playing at the Madison Civic
Center (8pm)--keep that in mind if you park near the
capitol.


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From scorcora at wisc.edu  Mon Nov 18 17:23:21 2002
From: scorcora at wisc.edu (scorcora at wisc.edu)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:23:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Job Hunting
In-Reply-To: <61SOH4W94MLWKJC87NXWA6A084O.3dd92e04@admin1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211181720550.1168-100000@slc.corcorancreations.com>


You might not like this idea, but consider going back to college.  It
would be a) a way to get by til there's a better job market and b) easier
to get a job with a degree!

Actually, if you went even part-time, you'd then be eligible for UW jobs
as a student, and you could probably make some decent money. :)

staci

-----------------------------------
Truth is like the sun: Sometimes it's hidden, and sometimes you wonder
if it's really there at all, but if you don't believe, it goes right
on as it always has.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Glen Murie wrote:

> Any advice?




From shoemakerted at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 17:42:06 2002
From: shoemakerted at yahoo.com (Ted and Robin Shoemaker)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:42:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Setup 2 moniters
In-Reply-To: <20021118165035.10018.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021118234206.40294.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- root root <i_root_you at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone try setup 2 moniters on the same computer with Matrox
> G550?

I tried and failed to get linux to work with a *single* monitor with a
matrox card.  Consider changing brands.
 
> And my other probs.I have windows  

That's a redundant statement.   :)


=====
Ted Shoemaker
shoemakerted at yahoo.com

=============================================
If you have nothing to say, 
don't use a lot of words saying it.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From mafriedel at charter.net  Mon Nov 18 19:46:22 2002
From: mafriedel at charter.net (Mark Friedel)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:46:22 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Topic idea
In-Reply-To: <20021118211642.80052.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAAEKGCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>

Steve,

If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:

fetchmail
sendmail
mailscanner  (http://www.mailscanner.info)
f-prot       (free for personal use)
-and-
spamassassin

as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or business.

I've done it for clients (minus the fetchmail part) and it works incredibly
well.

Something for future consideration.

Mark Friedel


-----Original Message-----
From: madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org
[mailto:madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Krause
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:17 PM
To: madlug at madisonlinux.org
Subject: [Madlug] **Meeting Reminder**


Hello all,

Just a reminder that we have a Friday meeting at Steep
& Brew (7pm, State Street). Bring your
friends--convert them to Linux! Hope to see you all
there.

Last time we had lively discussions on all sorts of
topics. Regarding upcoming presentations, we have a
couple things in the works, but most won't be ready
until early 2003, I expect. If *you* have a topic you
would like to present on, either as a more informal
thing at a Friday social meeting, or as something for
a Tuesday evening meeting at the Comp. Sci. building,
let me know by email, and let's work it out.

Just the other day I installed scoop (which runs such
sites as www.kuro5hin.org) on a spare box; it wasn't
nearly as painful as I expected, and for anyone who is
interested in setting up a discussion/forum site, I
can talk about that a bit more on Friday.

--Steve Krause


PS: As for parking/traffic concerns:

I checked the UW calendar. There are women's hockey
and volleyball matches, but they're 1) in Middleton
and 2) at the Field House. The Kohl Center doesn't
seem to have anything planned. There is a movie at
Vilas Hall, and a theater performance at the
UW-Theater--those should not impact parking *that
much*, but I thought I'd warn you.

Verdi's "Il Trovatore" is playing at the Madison Civic
Center (8pm)--keep that in mind if you park near the
capitol.


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From tim at madweb.org  Mon Nov 18 21:37:59 2002
From: tim at madweb.org (Tim Schaab)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:37:59 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Feedback Request: PHP Tutorial
Message-ID: <3DD9B217.5060604@madweb.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings,

I am putting together a PHP tutorial for the Association of Information
System Professionals at the UW School of Business.  There will be a
presentation and also an online version of the tutorial for people to go
through at their own leisure.  I am almost done with it, I need to do
some cleanups, edits, and last additions.  I thought I would see what
people think of it.  I ask that you take a look at it and let me know
what you think think or any ideas for improvement.

You can check out the rough draft at:

http://madweb.org/php/

There are most likely spelling errors all over, so take it with a grain
of salt.

Thanks for any help!

Tim
- --
Tim Schaab                  http://www.madweb.org
TSC Technician              http://tsc.bus.wisc.edu
AISP System Administrator   http://aisp.bus.wisc.edu

Life is what you make it.  If you think you can or can not, you are
right.  It is all up to you.
~  - Words of Wisdom

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Using PGP with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQA/AwUBPdmyFmPEs0eIjVJYEQLcUQCgoV/hhYrF/A9ySh7krQmE4oNYJ2kAn1/s
GewEeqORIACjkNbiPkLWQ81f
=zQ7+
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From scorcora at wisc.edu  Mon Nov 18 21:56:04 2002
From: scorcora at wisc.edu (scorcora at wisc.edu)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Topic idea
In-Reply-To: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAAEKGCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211182155090.1371-100000@slc.corcorancreations.com>


On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Friedel wrote:
> If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
> fetchmail
> sendmail

Got my interest right there!
However, my schedule is ugly.

I'll keep my ears open for your response...

staci




From chris at clotho.com  Tue Nov 19 00:01:28 2002
From: chris at clotho.com (Chris Dolan)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:01:28 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Topic idea
In-Reply-To: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAAEKGCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>
References: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAAEKGCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>
Message-ID: <3DD9D3B8.6060205@clotho.com>

I posted a SpamAssassin howto on this mailing list last June:
http://www.madisonlinux.org/pipermail/madlug/2002-June/003895.html

Chris

On 11/18/02 7:46 PM, Mark Friedel wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
> 
> fetchmail
> sendmail
> mailscanner  (http://www.mailscanner.info)
> f-prot       (free for personal use)
> -and-
> spamassassin
> 
> as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or business.
> 
> I've done it for clients (minus the fetchmail part) and it works incredibly
> well.
> 
> Something for future consideration.
> 
> Mark Friedel
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org
> [mailto:madlug-admin at madisonlinux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Krause
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:17 PM
> To: madlug at madisonlinux.org
> Subject: [Madlug] **Meeting Reminder**
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Just a reminder that we have a Friday meeting at Steep
> & Brew (7pm, State Street). Bring your
> friends--convert them to Linux! Hope to see you all
> there.
> 
> Last time we had lively discussions on all sorts of
> topics. Regarding upcoming presentations, we have a
> couple things in the works, but most won't be ready
> until early 2003, I expect. If *you* have a topic you
> would like to present on, either as a more informal
> thing at a Friday social meeting, or as something for
> a Tuesday evening meeting at the Comp. Sci. building,
> let me know by email, and let's work it out.
> 
> Just the other day I installed scoop (which runs such
> sites as www.kuro5hin.org) on a spare box; it wasn't
> nearly as painful as I expected, and for anyone who is
> interested in setting up a discussion/forum site, I
> can talk about that a bit more on Friday.
> 
> --Steve Krause
> 
> 
> PS: As for parking/traffic concerns:
> 
> I checked the UW calendar. There are women's hockey
> and volleyball matches, but they're 1) in Middleton
> and 2) at the Field House. The Kohl Center doesn't
> seem to have anything planned. There is a movie at
> Vilas Hall, and a theater performance at the
> UW-Theater--those should not impact parking *that
> much*, but I thought I'd warn you.
> 
> Verdi's "Il Trovatore" is playing at the Madison Civic
> Center (8pm)--keep that in mind if you park near the
> capitol.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug




From ted at hiegel.net  Tue Nov 19 06:52:42 2002
From: ted at hiegel.net (Ted Cohen)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:52:42 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] sendmail presentation
In-Reply-To: <20021119123054.19045.13526.Mailman@franz.stat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119063557.02912de0@192.168.2.162>

At 19:46:22 -0600 on Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Friedel wrote:
 >If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
 >fetchmail, sendmail, mailscanner, f-prot, and spamassassin
 >as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or business.

i would be very interested in attending, particularly if it covered 
authenticated relaying of outbound smtp mail but i would come even if it 
did not.  pick a tuesday and let us know.  thank you for offering.

i also have a strong interest in setting up imap and web mail, particularly 
if the mail store could be in mysql or postgres and if the login id could 
be the fully qualified mail address. ie barb at domain1.com is a different 
account than barb at domain2.com.  right now, using sendmail the way i have it 
set up, i can only have one barb log in and pick up mail.  i can recieve 
mail for the two barbs mentioned above, but they have to each have a linux 
account, say barb1 and barb2, to get their mail.  i would prefer that they 
not have linux accounts at all and that there not be a name conflict over 
barb.  if they both want to be barb, let them as long as they are in 
different domains.

i know that lots of suggestions have passed back and forth on this list 
dealing with the pros and cons of storing mail in a database, how it might 
be done,  and ways to search it when stored as text as a means to reduce 
the desire to put it in a database at all, but it was all hypothetical.  i 
would like to attend a presentation on at least imap and web mail, if not 
database mail, by some one that has already done it.




From ranoble at madison.k12.wi.us  Tue Nov 19 07:46:42 2002
From: ranoble at madison.k12.wi.us (Richard A. Noble)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:46:42 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Topic idea
In-Reply-To: <MIEEKIHINEGDGEFDDMLAAEKGCLAA.mafriedel@charter.net>
References: <20021118211642.80052.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20021119074642.007c69a0@madison.k12.wi.us>

I'd be interested.

Rich

At 07:46 PM 11/18/02 -0600, Mark Friedel wrote:
>If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
>
>fetchmail
>sendmail
>mailscanner  (http://www.mailscanner.info)
>f-prot       (free for personal use)
>-and-
>spamassassin
>
>as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or business.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Noble                     Madison Metropolitan School District
Programmer                                             Technical Services
ranoble at madison.k12.wi.us -- Voice: (608) 663-5479 -- FAX: (608) 442-0664
For help with e-mail, call the TS Help Line at 663-5853.



From i_root_you at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 10:01:19 2002
From: i_root_you at yahoo.com (root root)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:01:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] looking for a job
Message-ID: <20021119160119.46906.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>

 I looking for a job in Network Administrator - Unix Systems and Securityin the madison area if anyone looking for someone let me know.Or is will a white hacker to security up there network.

Root


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From dave at weccusa.org  Tue Nov 19 17:08:39 2002
From: dave at weccusa.org (David W. Jablonski)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:08:39 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] sendmail presentation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119063557.02912de0@192.168.2.162>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119063557.02912de0@192.168.2.162>
Message-ID: <1037747319.25732.98.camel@opiate.weccusa.org>

I don't think this answers all your questions and/or concerns but Cyrus
IMAPD using SASL (which uses Berkeley DB to store usernames and
passwords) works well.  You can also store user accounts in an LDAP
server.  This is the black box IMAP approach where you don't have to
have user accounts on the server.  Built into Cyrus is filtering
software called sieve which actually works quite well - though doesn't
do searching - I rely on my IMAP client to search.  Cyrus does store the
mail messages as just files though so that doesn't answer your question
about storing email in a database.  Also I haven't installed a version
of Cyrus since 2.0.16 so there may have been some added features.  I
forgot the URL offhand but a search of google will get you there.

I use phpGroupware as my IMAP web client using the Anglemail plugin. 
I've had good results with this setup and I run sendmail as the MTA. 
I've had problems getting SMTP auth to work but probably because I
haven't sat down and really tried it.

I also use AmaVis to scan for viruses and I'm looking at integrating
SpamAssassin into this setup.  So far this has been workable for a
company with about 60 employees and lots of email.

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 06:52, Ted Cohen wrote:
> At 19:46:22 -0600 on Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Friedel wrote:
>  >If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
>  >fetchmail, sendmail, mailscanner, f-prot, and spamassassin
>  >as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or business.
> 
> i would be very interested in attending, particularly if it covered 
> authenticated relaying of outbound smtp mail but i would come even if it 
> did not.  pick a tuesday and let us know.  thank you for offering.
> 
> i also have a strong interest in setting up imap and web mail, particularly 
> if the mail store could be in mysql or postgres and if the login id could 
> be the fully qualified mail address. ie barb at domain1.com is a different 
> account than barb at domain2.com.  right now, using sendmail the way i have it 
> set up, i can only have one barb log in and pick up mail.  i can recieve 
> mail for the two barbs mentioned above, but they have to each have a linux 
> account, say barb1 and barb2, to get their mail.  i would prefer that they 
> not have linux accounts at all and that there not be a name conflict over 
> barb.  if they both want to be barb, let them as long as they are in 
> different domains.
> 
> i know that lots of suggestions have passed back and forth on this list 
> dealing with the pros and cons of storing mail in a database, how it might 
> be done,  and ways to search it when stored as text as a means to reduce 
> the desire to put it in a database at all, but it was all hypothetical.  i 
> would like to attend a presentation on at least imap and web mail, if not 
> database mail, by some one that has already done it.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
-- 
David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE
Systems Administrator
http://www.weccusa.org
http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com




From chris at hddesign.com  Tue Nov 19 17:41:31 2002
From: chris at hddesign.com (Chris Meyers)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:41:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] sendmail presentation
In-Reply-To: <1037747319.25732.98.camel@opiate.weccusa.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119063557.02912de0@192.168.2.162>
        <1037747319.25732.98.camel@opiate.weccusa.org>
Message-ID: <61971.192.168.1.254.1037749291.squirrel@overhill.hddesign.com>

I have to put in a plug for Squrrelmail as a frontend for IMAP. It is
easy-peasy to configure has tons of plugins and looks cool to boot. I also
have to say that F-Prot is a very good anti-virus program and it is free
for personal use.

Just my $0.02

Chris Meyers

Thus Spake David W. Jablonski
> I don't think this answers all your questions and/or concerns but Cyrus
> IMAPD using SASL (which uses Berkeley DB to store usernames and
> passwords) works well.  You can also store user accounts in an LDAP
> server.  This is the black box IMAP approach where you don't have to
> have user accounts on the server.  Built into Cyrus is filtering
> software called sieve which actually works quite well - though doesn't
> do searching - I rely on my IMAP client to search.  Cyrus does store the
> mail messages as just files though so that doesn't answer your question
> about storing email in a database.  Also I haven't installed a version
> of Cyrus since 2.0.16 so there may have been some added features.  I
> forgot the URL offhand but a search of google will get you there.
>
> I use phpGroupware as my IMAP web client using the Anglemail plugin.
> I've had good results with this setup and I run sendmail as the MTA.
> I've had problems getting SMTP auth to work but probably because I
> haven't sat down and really tried it.
>
> I also use AmaVis to scan for viruses and I'm looking at integrating
> SpamAssassin into this setup.  So far this has been workable for a
> company with about 60 employees and lots of email.
>
> On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 06:52, Ted Cohen wrote:
>> At 19:46:22 -0600 on Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Friedel wrote:
>>  >If there is interest, I wouldn't mind doing a how-to on installing:
>> fetchmail, sendmail, mailscanner, f-prot, and spamassassin
>>  >as a complete anti-virus/anti-spam mail gateway for home or
>> business.
>>
>> i would be very interested in attending, particularly if it covered
>> authenticated relaying of outbound smtp mail but i would come even if
>> it  did not.  pick a tuesday and let us know.  thank you for offering.
>>
>> i also have a strong interest in setting up imap and web mail,
>> particularly  if the mail store could be in mysql or postgres and if
>> the login id could  be the fully qualified mail address. ie
>> barb at domain1.com is a different  account than barb at domain2.com.  right
>> now, using sendmail the way i have it  set up, i can only have one
>> barb log in and pick up mail.  i can recieve  mail for the two barbs
>> mentioned above, but they have to each have a linux  account, say
>> barb1 and barb2, to get their mail.  i would prefer that they  not
>> have linux accounts at all and that there not be a name conflict over
>> barb.  if they both want to be barb, let them as long as they are in
>> different domains.
>>
>> i know that lots of suggestions have passed back and forth on this
>> list  dealing with the pros and cons of storing mail in a database,
>> how it might  be done,  and ways to search it when stored as text as a
>> means to reduce  the desire to put it in a database at all, but it was
>> all hypothetical.  i  would like to attend a presentation on at least
>> imap and web mail, if not  database mail, by some one that has already
>> done it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
>> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> --
> David W. Jablonski, RHCE, MCSE
> Systems Administrator
> http://www.weccusa.org
> http://www.energyfinancesolutions.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug





From mtinberg at securepipe.com  Tue Nov 19 20:19:12 2002
From: mtinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:19:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] sendmail presentation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119063557.02912de0@192.168.2.162>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191955550.2013-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ted Cohen wrote:

> i also have a strong interest in setting up imap and web mail, particularly 
> if the mail store could be in mysql or postgres and if the login id could 
> be the fully qualified mail address. ie barb at domain1.com is a different 
> account than barb at domain2.com.  right now, using sendmail the way i have it 
> set up, i can only have one barb log in and pick up mail.  i can recieve 
> mail for the two barbs mentioned above, but they have to each have a linux 
> account, say barb1 and barb2, to get their mail.  i would prefer that they 
> not have linux accounts at all and that there not be a name conflict over 
> barb.  if they both want to be barb, let them as long as they are in 
> different domains.

I've seen pretty much the exact thing done with qmail and vmailmgr, the 
trick is to have one UID/GID per domain and deliver everything to to the 
user account corresponding to the domain.  Check out the vmailmgr docs for 
more info, but this sounds like exactally what you need.

> 
> i know that lots of suggestions have passed back and forth on this list 
> dealing with the pros and cons of storing mail in a database, how it might 
> be done,  and ways to search it when stored as text as a means to reduce 
> the desire to put it in a database at all, but it was all hypothetical.  i 
> would like to attend a presentation on at least imap and web mail, if not 
> database mail, by some one that has already done it.

Just as a point, specifying the technology that you will use to solve the 
problem, before even fully identifying what the problem is, is like 
putting the cart in front of the horse. "I don't know what we're doing, 
but we are going to do it with a database!" is a relevant quote.  Figure 
out what you want it to do, then figure out what technology would be 
appropriate to make it happen.

-- 
Mark Tinberg <MTinberg at securepipe.com>
Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc.
Remember:  Wherever you go, there you are!
Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1  38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7

	Your daily fortune . . . 

Your step will soil many countries.




From rferguson at voyager.net  Tue Nov 19 21:24:16 2002
From: rferguson at voyager.net (Ray Ferguson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:24:16 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] sendmail presentation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191955550.2013-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191955550.2013-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>
Message-ID: <200211192124.16141.rferguson@voyager.net>

I'm interested in the presentation.  

BTW:  I'm just finishing building a qmail-ldap server w/ phpQLAdmin management 
interface, Squirellmail/Courier Imap webmail, POP, POP before SMTP, login w/ 
email address instead of UID and hosting of virtual domains in seperate 
address space.  ie ray at foo.com is a different account than ray at foo.net.  

Although I haven't done so on this implimentation, adding RBL or Virus 
scanning should be easy.  There is also a way to set up virus scanning on a 
per domain basis with an additional qmail patch.

This is pretty hairy stuff that isn't well suited to a presentation, but I'd 
be happy to discuss it with you at Steep and Brew or over the list.

-ray.

On Tuesday 19 November 2002 08:19 pm, Mark Tinberg wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ted Cohen wrote:
> > i also have a strong interest in setting up imap and web mail,
> > particularly if the mail store could be in mysql or postgres and if the
> > login id could be the fully qualified mail address. ie barb at domain1.com
> > is a different account than barb at domain2.com.  right now, using sendmail
> > the way i have it set up, i can only have one barb log in and pick up
> > mail.  i can recieve mail for the two barbs mentioned above, but they
> > have to each have a linux account, say barb1 and barb2, to get their
> > mail.  i would prefer that they not have linux accounts at all and that
> > there not be a name conflict over barb.  if they both want to be barb,
> > let them as long as they are in different domains.
>
> I've seen pretty much the exact thing done with qmail and vmailmgr, the
> trick is to have one UID/GID per domain and deliver everything to to the
> user account corresponding to the domain.  Check out the vmailmgr docs for
> more info, but this sounds like exactally what you need.
>
> > i know that lots of suggestions have passed back and forth on this list
> > dealing with the pros and cons of storing mail in a database, how it
> > might be done,  and ways to search it when stored as text as a means to
> > reduce the desire to put it in a database at all, but it was all
> > hypothetical.  i would like to attend a presentation on at least imap and
> > web mail, if not database mail, by some one that has already done it.
>
> Just as a point, specifying the technology that you will use to solve the
> problem, before even fully identifying what the problem is, is like
> putting the cart in front of the horse. "I don't know what we're doing,
> but we are going to do it with a database!" is a relevant quote.  Figure
> out what you want it to do, then figure out what technology would be
> appropriate to make it happen.




From don_schultz at panvera.com  Wed Nov 20 08:50:37 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:50:37 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Imap authentication
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE200@mercury.panvera.com>

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

So I'm using trustix 1.2 as a base (basically a secure redhat 6.2
system) apache 1.3.27, php 4.2.3, squirrelmail and uw-imap. Everything
works great, mail sends... Mail gets picked up, but squirrelmail uses
imap to get email and it seems that imap doesn't want to allow logins.
If you telnet to the imap port and do a "c1 capabilities" in the list of
things it spits out I get a LOGINDISABLE, does anyone know how to enable
logging into the uw-imap server? I imagine it's something you can pass
on at compile time but I just can't figure it out! 

.: Don Schultz
:: Network Administrator - Unix Systems
:: Panvera, LLC
:: 501 Charmany Dr.
:: Madison, WI 53719
 \\
 :: Phone: 608-204-5060 / Fax: 608-204-5061
 :: Email: don_schultz at panvera.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0 (Build 349) Beta

iQA/AwUBPduhPCF/whNNx4m6EQI0FgCeIGXaYJa6aM6sOo241Oyd+1y9WIIAnjI2
gZCbRrbG1HnMgWUEHDPUMseg
=RbdO
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From parzamendi at charter.net  Thu Nov 21 08:10:52 2002
From: parzamendi at charter.net (Peter Arzamendi)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Madlug] Wireless question.
Message-ID: <web-1452282@dc-mxdb03.cluster1.charter.net>

Can someone lend me a hand? I setup my slackware 8.1 
server in Ad-hoc mode. (Using Orinoco card) I can see the 
ESSID and all the other cool stuff with iwconfig. The 
problem I'm having is the Cell/MAC number keeps changing 
every 30 seconds. Has anyone seen this? Is this how it 
should work? Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this 
problem?

Thanks,
Pete



From john at jhml.org  Sat Nov 23 12:27:06 2002
From: john at jhml.org (John Lederer)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:27:06 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Linux support firms in town?
Message-ID: <3DDFC87A.3050809@jhml.org>

Is there any firm around town that does a good, knowledgeable, 
professional job of supporting Unix/Linux in a company?


John Lederer




From jmjaco at charter.net  Sat Nov 23 17:27:38 2002
From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:27:38 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] To avoid reinventing something
Message-ID: <20021123232738.GA31622@strider>

I'm looking for a utility that will scan a pcal input file for lines
that contain sets of alternatives, and rewrite the file, reinserting
those lines as many times as it takes to cover all the combinations of
the alternatives in question.  I could write something to do it, but if
it already exists, I'd rather not.

For example (with an arbitrary syntax):

5th Wed in all House of Thrift
last {Thu,Fri} in {Jan,Feb,Mar} Outreach

should be transformed into this:

5th Wed in all House of Thrift
last Thu in Jan Outreach
last Fri in Jan Outreach
last Thu in Feb Outreach
last Fri in Feb Outreach
last Thu in Mar Outreach
last Fri in Mar Outreach

I spent some time trying to figure out if I could solve the problem
using m4, but as m4 is simple a macro processor with no real looping
construct, this seems a bit beyond its purpose.

I'm pretty sure Awk can do it.  I know Python, Perl, and friends can do
it.  But it just seems like someone must have written a utility that
does this already.  Does anyone know of such a thing?

Before anyone suggests using the shell's brace expansion, I already
tried it several ways.  Brace expansion is similar, but entirely
single-word oriented.  Anything delimited with spaces won't work.

Thanks,

Jesse

-- 
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do
not see.  This is what the ancients were commended for.
OpenPGP Key: 2E3EBF13 Jesse Jacobsen <jmjaco at charter.net>



From agoodno at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 24 11:15:17 2002
From: agoodno at yahoo.com (Andrew Goodnough)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:15:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] Re: Linux support firms in town?
In-Reply-To: <20021124122946.21748.27853.Mailman@franz.stat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20021124171517.86832.qmail@web41203.mail.yahoo.com>

> Is there any firm around town that does a good, knowledgeable, 
> professional job of supporting Unix/Linux in a company?
> 
> 
> John Lederer

My company is Madison-based and does hardware support for customers around the
state, many in town.  AE Business Solutions, Inc. at http://www.aebs.com.  I'm
a software consultant and I'm new to the company (and area) but I know we have
guys certified in Sun Solaris and HP-UX.  I hear alot of talk about HP OpenView
around the office, specifically.  Unfortunately, Linux doesn't seem to even be
on the radar.  I'm not sure if we're hiring right now, but send me your resume
and I'll get it to our recruiter.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From jmjaco at charter.net  Sun Nov 24 15:47:34 2002
From: jmjaco at charter.net (Jesse Jacobsen)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:47:34 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] The Wheel is Here (pcal reprise)
Message-ID: <20021124214734.GA2237@strider>

Just an update on my recent message about expanding combinations in a
single line from a pcal file.  Below is a little Python script that does
the trick.  I'm calling it 'xcomb' for "expand combinations."  This has
been a learning experience.  I thought at first it would be a simple
matter, maybe for m4.  Well, m4 is not really built for the kind of
looping that this needs, and its data structures are too rudimentary.
Then I did most of it in Awk, but parameter passing to procedures is
messy, and again, the built-in data structures leave something to be
desired.  Then I remembered a2p, and tried completing the little project
in Perl.  Trouble is, it's been a while.  I had a hard time deciphering
the line noise you get when working with arrays-of-arrays.  The weird
parameter passing (scalars only) didn't help either.  By this time, I
had spent far too much time on it in far too many languages.  So I did
what I should have from the start: wrote it in Python.  A few minutes
later, I have a readable little program that does exactly what I need.
The syntax of combination lines is even customizable at run-time.  As
they say, "Python rocks."   Now it's safe for someone to remember some
obscure GNU utility that does this.

#!/usr/bin/python

import sys, re
file = sys.stdin.readlines()

def processGroups(texts, groups, sofar):
    if len(groups) == 1:            # Last group, print each combo
        for i in groups[0]:
            if len(texts) > 1:
                print sofar + texts[0] + i + texts[1]
            else:
                print sofar + texts[0] + i
    else:
        for i in groups[0]:
            newsofar = sofar + texts[0] + i
            newtexts = texts[1:]
            newgroups = groups[1:]
            processGroups(newtexts, newgroups, newsofar)

for l in file:
    l = l.rstrip()                          # Remove newline
    if not l:
        print
        continue
    if l.lstrip()[0] == "#":                # Comment
        print l
    elif l.startswith("::xcomb::"):         # Syntax line
        commandVars = l.split("::")[2:]
        flag, groupBegin, groupDelim, groupEnd = commandVars
        reGrouping = re.compile("(.*?)%s(.+?)%s(.*)" %
                                (groupBegin, groupEnd))
    elif l.startswith(flag):                # Alternative line
        l = l[len(flag):]                    # Remove the flag
        normalText = []
        groups = []
        matchFound = reGrouping.match(l)     # Match first set
        while matchFound:
            normalText.append(matchFound.group(1))
            thisGroup = matchFound.group(2)
            groups.append(thisGroup.split(groupDelim))
            l = matchFound.group(3)
            matchFound = reGrouping.match(l) # Match next set
        else:
            normalText.append(l)
        processGroups(normalText, groups, "")
    else:                                   # Normal line
        print l


-- 
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by
Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or
things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
                            http://www.grace-els.org



From i_root_you at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 25 09:20:08 2002
From: i_root_you at yahoo.com (root root)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20021125152008.84436.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>

Who is andy?I just like to know that all.

Root


---------------------------------
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From don_schultz at panvera.com  Mon Nov 25 10:13:37 2002
From: don_schultz at panvera.com (Don Schultz)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:13:37 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] XDMCP through Checkpoint SecureRemote, vpn
Message-ID: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE2BB@mercury.panvera.com>

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm using a registered version of winAXE to connect to a few linux
machines set up for XDMCP (yes I know that's a bad idea) the problem is:
I cannot see these machines in the XDMCP list when I'm connected from
home through checkpoint's Secure Remote into work. I'm not a big fan of
the whole X thing, I know a bit about X but not much so I need to know,
would this problem be because the firewall? Or is XDMCP not able to
broadcast past it's own network boundaries? Anyone have a solution or
iddea it'd be greatly appreciatedl, thanks!


- -don

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From mtinberg at securepipe.com  Mon Nov 25 13:45:43 2002
From: mtinberg at securepipe.com (Mark Tinberg)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:45:43 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] XDMCP through Checkpoint SecureRemote, vpn
In-Reply-To: <72CF2973A7532D478D85271D40F608FC8BE2BB@mercury.panvera.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211251337420.31575-100000@tinberg.wi.securepipe.com>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Don Schultz wrote:
> 
> I'm using a registered version of winAXE to connect to a few linux
> machines set up for XDMCP (yes I know that's a bad idea) the problem is:
> I cannot see these machines in the XDMCP list when I'm connected from
> home through checkpoint's Secure Remote into work. I'm not a big fan of
> the whole X thing, I know a bit about X but not much so I need to know,
> would this problem be because the firewall? Or is XDMCP not able to
> broadcast past it's own network boundaries? Anyone have a solution or
> iddea it'd be greatly appreciatedl, thanks!
> 

AFAIK XDMXP is broadcast based, so does not work across subnet boundries.  
If you are connecting from another network over the internet, using SSH 
with it's automatic X tunneling and gzip compression will probably be 
easier to setup and give better performance.

-- 
Mark Tinberg <MTinberg at securepipe.com>
Network Security Engineer, SecurePipe Inc.
Remember:  Wherever you go, there you are!
Key fingerprint = AF6B 0294 EE33 D802 F7A1  38A4 CF52 5FE0 7470 E5F7

	Your daily fortune . . . 

First rule of public speaking.
	First, tell 'em what you're goin' to tell 'em;
	then tell 'em;
	then tell 'em what you've tole 'em.




From jheim at facstaff.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 25 13:54:33 2002
From: jheim at facstaff.wisc.edu (John Heim)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:54:33 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Emacs Tramp Mode
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125135339.030040b0@wheresmymailserver.com>

I'm trying to edit files on a remote machine via emacs tramp mode. But I 
can't figure out how to use it. First of all, does anybody know of a good 
tutorial? I read the howto but I can't make heads or tails of it. I think 
the author assumes knowledge I don't have.

But say I have a login, john, on a remote machine named sparky. I want to 
edit /home/john/public_html/index.html, what do I type in?

I can't ssh to the machine and then run emacs because I am blind and the 
speech software is on my desktop linux machine. So somehow I have to get 
this working. I've been getting by scp-ing 	files back and forth but that 
is a major pain. 




From scorcora at wisc.edu  Mon Nov 25 14:18:04 2002
From: scorcora at wisc.edu (scorcora at wisc.edu)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:18:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Madlug] Emacs Tramp Mode
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125135339.030040b0@wheresmymailserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211251411170.1275-100000@slc.corcorancreations.com>

I can't help you there, however I do have a question for you....
What distribution/software do you run?  I assume some sort of speech
recognition software, but what else?  I'd been wondering about getting
software to read things to me (when my eyes are all tired out and the
rest of me is still needing to work/learn/research), but I didn't see
anything other than a distribution specially made for blind users.
Is there software to do this that's cheap or free?  There seems to be
everything else in the world free for Linux-users....but when I looked
I couldn't find anything.

???

Thanks,
sl

-----------------------------------
Truth is like the sun: Sometimes it's hidden, and sometimes you wonder
if it's really there at all, but if you don't believe, it goes right
on as it always has.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, John Heim wrote:

> I'm trying to edit files on a remote machine via emacs tramp mode. But I
> can't figure out how to use it. First of all, does anybody know of a good
> tutorial? I read the howto but I can't make heads or tails of it. I think
> the author assumes knowledge I don't have.
>
> But say I have a login, john, on a remote machine named sparky. I want to
> edit /home/john/public_html/index.html, what do I type in?
>
> I can't ssh to the machine and then run emacs because I am blind and the
> speech software is on my desktop linux machine. So somehow I have to get
> this working. I've been getting by scp-ing 	files back and forth but that
> is a major pain.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>




From bates at stat.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 25 14:58:40 2002
From: bates at stat.wisc.edu (Douglas Bates)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:58:40 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Emacs Tramp Mode
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125135339.030040b0@wheresmymailserver.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125135339.030040b0@wheresmymailserver.com>
Message-ID: <6r65ulicxr.fsf@bates5.stat.wisc.edu>

John Heim <jheim at facstaff.wisc.edu> writes:

> I'm trying to edit files on a remote machine via emacs tramp mode. But
> I can't figure out how to use it. First of all, does anybody know of a
> good tutorial? I read the howto but I can't make heads or tails of
> it. I think the author assumes knowledge I don't have.
> 
> But say I have a login, john, on a remote machine named sparky. I want
> to edit /home/john/public_html/index.html, what do I type in?
> 
> I can't ssh to the machine and then run emacs because I am blind and
> the speech software is on my desktop linux machine. So somehow I
> have to get this working. I've been getting by scp-ing files back
> and forth but that is a major pain.

Put the following lines in your emacs initialization file

(require 'tramp)
(setq tramp-default-method "scp")

then, within emacs, invoke find-file (C-x C-f) of the filename 
                   /[sparky]public_html/index.html



From i_root_you at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 26 19:26:07 2002
From: i_root_you at yahoo.com (root root)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:26:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Madlug] dsl probs with red hat linux 8.0
Message-ID: <20021127012607.26525.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>

Here my prob i useing windows 2000 pro as the gateway. 


I useing 192.168.0.x as my gateway on my windows pc.On the the linux box i am useing 192.168.0.x as my linux box ip number i use for a netmask 255.255.255.0 



I know for sure my DNS number for my dsl satellite is 198.77.116.X. 


But sure i try make my linux box a differnt ip number?I use a use modem from direcway.I not sure what to do here. 


Here a link to the new modem that is comeing out for my dsl and i not sure if i get this modem i can just use all linux box on my lan but not windows box.What you think about that? 



Root


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From billf at inxpress.net  Fri Nov 29 12:35:24 2002
From: billf at inxpress.net (Bill Fredrickson)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:35:24 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Do Win users have all the fun???
Message-ID: <3DE7B36C.F7DC8DCC@inxpress.net>

Hi all,

Saw this in the news this morning and thought "you all" would find it
amusing, and maybe even feel a bit left out of all the fun.

Bill
======

New Worm Adds Insult To Injury 

Winevar worm can delete every file on a hard drive--and call the user
foolish in the process.

By George V. Hulme, InformationWeek
Nov 27, 2002 (12:00 AM)
URL: http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20021127S0033 

Antivirus vendors are warning users about a new E-mail worm that has the
potential to wreak havoc on computer systems and call the
user "foolish" while it does its damage, possibly even deleting every
file on an infected hard drive. Most antivirus vendors have
updated their software to stop the worm and have made removal tools
available for those already infected. The worm, named
Winevar, was first spotted in South Korea, the vendors say.

Like other recent worms, Winevar takes advantage of a well-known Iframe
vulnerability is Microsoft's Internet Explorer and Outlook
E-mail clients. The flaw makes it possible for such worms and viruses to
open HTML formatted messages and execute them without
user activation. 

Once Winevar is on a system, it installs a virus similar to Funlove that
tries to turn off installed antivirus software. According to
antivirus vendor F-Secure Corp., Winevar also continuously tries to
download the Symantec home page to a temporary file. "This
might create a [denial-of-service] attack in case the worm becomes
widespread," F-Secure writes in an advisory published Wednesday.

Infected messages may contain the following in the subject line: 

Re: AVAR (Association of Anti-Virus Asia Researchers)N`4
%RegisteredOrganization% N`4 Trand Microsoft Inc. 

Experts believe the worm's release may have been timed with the AVAR
conference held last week in Seoul. The second subject line
captures the "RegisteredOrganization" key in the Windows System
Registry. If that key isn't present in the registry, the third option
may be used by the worm. 

When an infected computer is booted, a dialogue box titled "Make a fool
of oneself" appears with the text "What a foolish thing you
have done." If the "OK" button is pushed, all files on the computer
system that are not open will be deleted. 

Users are urged to update their antivirus software for the latest
signatures. Also, users may want to ensure that their systems have
been updated to include Microsoft's critical updates and patch the
ActiveX vulnerability used by this worm. These can be found here.



From sogo at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Nov 29 11:58:58 2002
From: sogo at cs.wisc.edu (Takashi Sogo)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:58:58 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Do Win users have all the fun???
In-Reply-To: <3DE7B36C.F7DC8DCC@inxpress.net>
Message-ID: <3BBF0264-03C4-11D7-84C2-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>

Speaking of Windows, I was buying something at a store in the Union 
South. But they seemed to have some problem in their cash register and 
I saw the boot-up logo of Windows 98 on the screen. The clerk said 
"twice in  a day" even though it's only around noon.


Takashi




From gmurie at ameritech.net  Fri Nov 29 13:32:26 2002
From: gmurie at ameritech.net (Glen Murie)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:32:26 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Newbie Question about video
Message-ID: <A0ZWGAHCA0XXSZVQL64SQA8NLED4195.3de7c0ca@glenspc>

Sorry if this is a dumb one.

I just got Mandrake 9.0 installed on my PC. I've settled on it because it's got the best support for dual boot of 
all the distros, and is relatively easy to use.

When I installed the OS it detected everything fine. Appearantly it even got my SanDisk USB memory card reader, 
so I was pretty happy with that. However, I cannot use any resolution on the screen beyond 600x800. The install 
detected my video card fine (Matrox 450 Dual-Head) and had the specs on my monitor (Viewsonic ViewPanel VG151) on 
the list of monitors.

However, whenever I try to use a resolution beyond 600x800 I get a noticable and annoying "ripple" or wavering 
across the entire screen. Something related to refresh rates at a guess, but when I try to do Google searches on 
the problem I only get boatloads of hits on a "Ripple Screen Saver". I tried several different configurations 
through the GUI configuration tool with no luck. The same ripple occurs no matter how I configure the controller.

Mandrake's support area turns up nothing. 

Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to fix this?





From gmurie at ameritech.net  Fri Nov 29 18:00:00 2002
From: gmurie at ameritech.net (Glen Murie)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:00:00 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Newbie Question about video
In-Reply-To: <001b01c297f4$4fd2e1b0$34b31e41@shayn>
Message-ID: <93ML07C786FDPODBRQ2WFBEAF03WC0.3de7ff80@glenspc>

No, there's no moire menu option. It's all automagical and plug and pray.

11/29/02 4:11:48 PM, "Shayn Vedvik" <svedvik at wi.rr.com> wrote:

>Do you have a moire menu option on the hardware menu for the monitor.  I'm
>using same brand, different model, with no problems.  If you're having
>trouble and have that hardware option, turn it further down...
>
>Shayn
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Glen Murie" <gmurie at ameritech.net>
>To: <madlug at madisonlinux.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:32 PM
>Subject: [Madlug] Newbie Question about video
>
>
>> Sorry if this is a dumb one.
>>
>> I just got Mandrake 9.0 installed on my PC. I've settled on it because
>it's got the best support for dual boot of
>> all the distros, and is relatively easy to use.
>>
>> When I installed the OS it detected everything fine. Appearantly it even
>got my SanDisk USB memory card reader,
>> so I was pretty happy with that. However, I cannot use any resolution on
>the screen beyond 600x800. The install
>> detected my video card fine (Matrox 450 Dual-Head) and had the specs on my
>monitor (Viewsonic ViewPanel VG151) on
>> the list of monitors.
>>
>> However, whenever I try to use a resolution beyond 600x800 I get a
>noticable and annoying "ripple" or wavering
>> across the entire screen. Something related to refresh rates at a guess,
>but when I try to do Google searches on
>> the problem I only get boatloads of hits on a "Ripple Screen Saver". I
>tried several different configurations
>> through the GUI configuration tool with no luck. The same ripple occurs no
>matter how I configure the controller.
>>
>> Mandrake's support area turns up nothing.
>>
>> Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to fix this?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
>> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
>
>






From hardburn at runbox.com  Fri Nov 29 18:44:15 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:44:15 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Newbie Question about video
In-Reply-To: <A0ZWGAHCA0XXSZVQL64SQA8NLED4195.3de7c0ca@glenspc>
References: <A0ZWGAHCA0XXSZVQL64SQA8NLED4195.3de7c0ca@glenspc>
Message-ID: <200211291844.20170.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 29 November 2002 13:32, Glen Murie wrote:
> Sorry if this is a dumb one.
>
> I just got Mandrake 9.0 installed on my PC. I've settled on it because it's
> got the best support for dual boot of all the distros, and is relatively
> easy to use.
>
> When I installed the OS it detected everything fine. Appearantly it even
> got my SanDisk USB memory card reader, so I was pretty happy with that.
> However, I cannot use any resolution on the screen beyond 600x800. The
> install detected my video card fine (Matrox 450 Dual-Head) and had the
> specs on my monitor (Viewsonic ViewPanel VG151) on the list of monitors.
>
> However, whenever I try to use a resolution beyond 600x800 I get a
> noticable and annoying "ripple" or wavering across the entire screen.
> Something related to refresh rates at a guess, but when I try to do Google
> searches on the problem I only get boatloads of hits on a "Ripple Screen
> Saver". I tried several different configurations through the GUI
> configuration tool with no luck. The same ripple occurs no matter how I
> configure the controller.
<>

Sounds like your horizontal and vertical sync is out of range for your monitor 
at higher resolutions.  Most distros that automatically detect the monitor 
will know what these sync ranges are (otherwise, there is no point to 
automatically detecting the monitor), but Mandrake tends to be, umm, special.

Find the manual for your monitor (or check the manufacture's web site) and get 
the sync ranges for it.  Then do an "XF86Setup" as root (hopefully Mandrake 
included it--if not, you'll probably have to edit /etc/X11/XF86Config by 
hand), and make sure the sync ranges line up for the needed resolutions.

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
Unix Express:
All passengers bring a piece of the aeroplane and a box of tools with them to 
the airport.  They gather on the tarmac, arguing constantly about what kind 
of plane they want to build and how to put it together.  Eventually, the 
passengers split into groups and build several different aircaraft, but give 
them all the same name.  Some passengers actually reach their destinations.  
All passengers believe they got there.
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From vrman at bourbaki.us  Fri Nov 29 20:50:26 2002
From: vrman at bourbaki.us (Richard J. Mancusi)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:50:26 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] Do Win users have all the fun???
References: <3BBF0264-03C4-11D7-84C2-0030654B4106@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DE82772.6070908@bourbaki.us>

Well, that's a good one - but not exactly a life/death situation. Here is my
$ 0.02 worth:

I was at U.W. Hosp Radiology attempting to survive a couple of tests.  Nothing
important, just checking on my Cancer, etc.  Anyway, they have a U.W. home-grown
instrument attached to a home-grown program running on Windows 98.  The tech
explains to me (while he is rebooting) that it keeps crashing.  But it helps
if they reboot every morning.

I explained to him that they should at the VERY least move to Windows 2000 or
better yet Linux.  The next day I returned for additional tests and was spoken
to by two techs about their o.s. problem.  It seems that they do not know who
to contact.  They believe the instrument came from the Physics Dept - but
not sure.  I offered to take a shot at the upgrade - but they never called.

I sure hope that they did something.  They are messing with our lives and
this is not an area for M$ - especially 98.

Rich


Takashi Sogo wrote:
> Speaking of Windows, I was buying something at a store in the Union 
> South. But they seemed to have some problem in their cash register and I 
> saw the boot-up logo of Windows 98 on the screen. The clerk said "twice 
> in  a day" even though it's only around noon.
> 
> 
> Takashi
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Madlug mailing list  -  Madlug at madisonlinux.org
> http://www.madisonlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/madlug
> 





From hardburn at runbox.com  Sat Nov 30 21:53:15 2002
From: hardburn at runbox.com (Timm Murray)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:53:15 -0600
Subject: [Madlug] CnP sucess!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0212012234330.1494-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0212012234330.1494-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200211302153.18599.hardburn@runbox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 01 December 2002 21:38, wa4chq at qsl.net wrote:
> Greetings-
> I should have searched before posting the question.  I did a google search
> "cut and paste in pine" and sure enough I found the answer!  After
> highlighting the text that needs to be saved ie: 'error message' with the
> left mouse button, I can paste to pine message by holding down the 'shift'
> key and clicking both mouse buttons!
> Always learning!

Welcome to the wonderful world of the X Windowing system, where there are at 
least five ways to do the same thing, none of which work with quite the same 
principals.  If the designers of X had made cars, you would have twelve 
different stearing wheels, each of which work differently, but you can change 
gears with the stereo.

Cut-and-paste is one good example of this, and often the most obvious to new 
users, especially when mixing KDE and GNOME applications.  Both desktop 
systems use different means in the underlieing X system.  Also, KDE has an 
annoying habit of deleting things you wanted to copy (I'm not sure if this is 
a KDE problem or if this, too, is due to X).

- -- 
Timm Murray
GPG Key Fingerprint: 32E9 DBAF 8089 ECB7 696D  560B AA9B 9E29 C69C 7CB4
- ----------
I have also been a huge Unix fan every since I realized that SCO was not Unix.
		--Dennis Baker
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